When S&W began adding model numbers, was there any engineering change that went with that? In other words, are a pre-27 and a M27 no-dash identical? What was the change that prompted the -1, and how long was the gap before the -2's came along? Seems like you don't run across many -1's.

Well there were two changes that happened close to the same time but those changes did appear on late 'pre's' so...
Generally most .357 Magnums will be five screw and have a six groove front and back strap where a Model 27 is a 4-screw revolver and has 10 groove straps.

The -1 change changed the thread of the ejector rod from right to left hand thread.

Interesting...thank you for the information.

You know a little search of the inter-web brings a wealth of information:

Smith & Wesson model changes

The S&W .357 was kind of a work in progress and when the factory changed a part they didnt just immediately toss out the older style parts instead they used up the old stock into the transition till the old parts were gone .
One could argue the dash 1 revision was actually a year long transitional model because it used the older 4 screw frame with the new Left hand ejector rod/cylinder combo , The dash 2 revision had the new 3 screw frame with the existing Left hand thread ejector rod/cylinder combo.
Interestingly when the 27-2 transitioned into the 27-3 the factory mixed leftover recessed cylinders with the new non pinned barrel/frames but those models did not receive a revision change and are just referred to as transitional guns.

Oh that's too hard!!! Why would I do my own research when I can ask here? My teacher always told me the answers.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Jst1mr,

Correct, Pre models are are called that because they are the same configuration, just not stamped Mod 27. Although the term is mis-understood and often used incorrectly, including in the SCSW but it contradicts itself on more than just that issue. Stiil, it's an excellent resource and the 4th edition will be even better with corrections, updated info and more new discoveries of facts documented.

Dash numbers like anything else S&W are not "written in stone". It is not uncommon for guns with a certain dash # to not have the engineering change associated with the dash and visa versa, have the change but not the dash #.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Not trying to critcize dotted i's and crossed t's.

A lot of us (drives some others absolutely NUTZ) call the .357 Magnum Model of 1950 a pre-27 because it is more like the Model 27 than the .357 Magnum's that came before it (pre and early post WWII) but most pre-27's aren't the same as a Model 27, minus the model marking. For one, one is a 5-screw and the other a 4-screw.
To me there are more differences between a pre-27 and a Model 27 than there are between a 27 and 27-1.

I don't get too hung up on it. There are some extreme cases of over usage of pre model. Like someone calling a pre war 38 fixed sight K frame a pre model. Or referring to an Improved I frame and Model of 1953 both as pre models; you can't tell which one is meant. The new model 1953 I frame (both 3 and 4 screws) are the true pre models. Those are two of the most common misnomers used and are not helpful except to create confusion.

Agreed, a Model 1950 327 is not really a stretch. Most will say a 'pre 27 5 screw', but a 357 Transitional would be a stretch.

A 327 from 1956 when it lost the 5th screw is a clear pre model to a Model 27 which is also a 4 screw.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Road Rat, Thanks for the link.

I just looked up my S&W M19. The website calls it a KT frame. I've only heard it called a K frame. What is the difference between a K frame and a KT frame?
Anybody?

Thanks,
spm

I'm just going to guess that KT means "K Target Frame" as opposed to "K Fixed Sights Frame". You will notice that the Fixed Sight Model 10 and the FS M13 are "K" on the list. The Adjustable (Target) Sighted M14, M19, etc. are KTs.

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You're shy a few manners.

Another misnomer or shortcut term. A K frame is a fixed sight frame. A KT is a target sighted frame like the Models 19, 14, 15, 17, 18, etc. Models 27, 25, 29, etc., are built on the NT frame. A Model 36 target model is built on the JT frame.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks for the clarification, Hondo44 and Jack Flash. I learned something new today.

spm