I just picked up a 38 Regulation Police #53687. It has British proofs everywhere and "NOT ENGLISH MADE" on the frame and barrel flat (first time I've seen it there). No import marks. It was represented as Hong Kong Police and has a crudely stamped HKP behind the hammer. It has a broken metal strip attached to the grip screw that apparently secured a lanyard loop. If it was Hong Kong, where would a letter show shipment to? Are there any others like this out there?

Bob

Could well be Hong Kong. I have read that a large number of various types of handguns used by the Hong Kong Police were sold off just before the British packed up and left in 1999 (I think it was 1999). I have seen Colt semiautomatic pistols that were HKP marked. I don't know, but remember reading that the HK guns were in bad shape and were not maintained very well. Someone will be along who will know more than I. There are also Shanghai Police guns around.

The HKP and later the RHKP issued many different revolvers including the one you have. These included Webley .38/200s, Colt Police Positive .38s, and S&W Model 10s. They surface fairly frequently. But, no PD gun collector should be without one!! Nice catch!!

Once guns left the English service, they had to go through the British decommissioning and proofing process in order to enter the commercial market.

That's when, from 1925 to 1955 the "NOT ENGLISH MAKE" was stamped; this is from a reference book on military pistols.

The actual phrase is NOT ENGLISH MAKE, with a K.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Your Regulation Police is I believe more the Battle of Britain era. It bears the British military acceptance marks and as previously stated pre-1955 Birmingham civil proofs. My Police Positive has RHKP followed by 4 digits of equal height down the backstrap and no British proofs. The work was neatly done.
In May of 1940 the Brits were up against the wall and buying and doing all sorts of things with handguns. They also made the decision to arms rank and file policemen in addition to creating a homeguard organization. The marking on the rear somewhat resembles their WWI organizational stampings.

It is an interesting piece of history.

Standard Birmingham proof marks for a foreign made firearm (Proof marks inside bold stamped circles). The 'Not English Make' applied at the time of proofing.
These marks are of the 1925 Proof Law, valid through early '55 when the Proof Law of '54 took effect.
The 'Not English Make' was elliminated in the new proof law in '54,,the bold circle stamped proofs on foreign made firearms stayed.

This should have been done when the firearm arrived in England.
But the mark on the upper left of the sideplate is an RSAF Enfield Arsenal inspectors mark.
Quite possible the revolver was sent to the Brits at the start of WW2, inspected at Enfield Lock, and then simply put into service w/the Home Guard or where ever else they saw fit.

After the War, when these guns were surplused from the Gov't there and before they were sold commercially,,they still needed to be Gov't Proof tested. Possible then the full set of proofs were applied (before '55).
The one thing that goes against that post war proofing of the revolver is the fact that the individual chambers are proof marked. That's something that was generally not done after about the mid 1930's (each chamber was still fired w/a proof round as the law required, but the stamping of each chamber of the cylinder was not done).
But you'll find exceptions to that like everything else.
All speculation and a good guess of course..


The H.K.P. marking,,,I don't know. The guns from that part of the world seem to show all sorts of different styles of markings and most of them crude or hastily applied. Most of their handguns did have a lanyard attachment of some sort though from what I remember reading, and not all were of factory origin.