I recently purchased a mechanically perfect, but cosmetically challenged pre-model 27 with a DOB of 1953. I've made up my mind to re-blue this gun. I would be interested in knowing who could reproduce the old method, period correct finish for this revolver. A recent thread mentioned a firm that does this type of finish, but I can't find the thread or remember the name. I know it was not Ford's. I am not interested in using S&W because their refinishing is not done in the old methods. Any help is greatly appreciated.

The reason S&W can't use "the old method" is due largely to environmental restrictions on the chemicals formerly used. May be the same with other companies.

I would not refinish unless it was truly, utterly horrible. You say you've made up your mind to spend money to reduce the value of your gun. OK, your decision to make.

I have seen really nice work by Ford's. Not sure who you were alluding to in your post.

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No life story has happy end.

On the assumption that you are dead set on getting a reblue, bluing of that period for the pre-27 was a high polish bright blue, as it was a high-end gun. Most other S&W revolvers back then sported a dull satin-like blue. That means the metal will require a high polish prior to bluing. Nothing magic about it, and Ford's (and other places) can do it. There's been some debate about exactly what bluing process S&W used then (I have my belief, others have theirs), but the typical hot oxide bluing performed by a competent shop today will look as good as the original factory blue. The appearance quality is determined by the perfection of the pre-blue metal polish, and not the bluing process itself. It won't be cheap, and it won't make your revolver worth any more. But it will be prettier.

Appreciate the input. I'm well aware of everything said, and am going into this with my eyes wide open. I am going for pretty. The gun was bought right, so I have no qualms about refinishing it.

Well, I say "do it".

An old pistol with an ugly worn away finish has already lost much of it's value. People will pass it up for a better example unless you price it less than other, better condition revolvers of the same vintage.

Personally, I would pay less for a poor condition original finish as I would for a very nice reblued piece, so in the end, the value will be a wash either way, but with a good reblue, YOU get to enjoy the piece more.

However, the key to this is a "very well done" reblue.
If the piece is so rusty that the rollmarks are made shallow or disappear, or if the guy doing it is incompetent and over polishes to cause the same lose of detail, then you're pretty much screwed.
Before giving the go ahead, I would first get an evaluation on how well the company can do the process without rounding out edges that aren't supposed to be or eradicating the roll marks.

A properly done reblueing is a work of art while a reblue at the hands of a hack is just a waste of a good revolver.
I have to wonder if maybe sending it in to S&W isn't your best first choice. If the piece is only worn and not rusted, it shouldn't require polishing so aggressive that they will damage the piece.

"I have to wonder if maybe sending it in to S&W isn't your best first choice."

S&W won't touch it - too old. And to resemble original finish, it will need a mirror polish. That's expensive.

It is my (out of date) recollection Turnbull duplicates the original bluing process. It is my current recollection you will pay dearly for Turnbull work. It is my opinion that while there are certainly guns worthy of a Turnbull restoration, this isn't one of them----simply from a dollars and cents standpoint.

Ford's work is first class----although their bluing process is the typical "hot tank". Ford's prices are dirt cheap! I personally don't understand how (or why) they charge so little. I'm sure there are others who produce high quality work, but I don't know who they are.

As an aside, it is my current understanding S&W will not work on your gun. If they will, then that is clearly your best option----never mind anything else. (I've had two guns refinished in my lifetime---both by the factory. They were merely perfect!)

Ralph Tremaine

Ford's gets a lot of good press for their quality and lower prices. There are likely many other capable finishing shops which will also do good-quality work, and some have been mentioned in various postings here. I do not know who they are or anything about their work. But keep in mind - the bluing process used is not particularly important. Literally any teenager can dip steel parts into a tank full of solution, and that is the simple part of the bluing job. It's the quality of the polishing prior to bluing that really makes or breaks the job.

At present, there are actually only two practical methods of bluing - either hot dip oxide bluing (bluing in a hot aqueous solution of caustic soda and other chemicals) or rust bluing (repeatedly rusting the steel using an acid mixture and carding the rusted metal surface). Virtually all gun manufacturers have used only oxide bluing since before WWII due to its many benefits. Rust bluing is still used on some high-end custom guns, but it is very tedious and involves time consuming hand labor to perform. It was much more commonly used by gun manufacturers such as Remington and Winchester prior to the advent of oxide bluing in the 1930s. Other old bluing processes such as nitre bluing and charcoal bluing are impractical and no commercial gun manufacturer has performed nitre or charcoal bluing for many years. There are some custom restoration and finishing shops such as Turnbull's which can provide the archaic bluing methods services - but at a very high price. There are probably others besides Turnbull.

It is all in the polishing. IMO Ford's is only so-so. If you can't stand the revolver the way it is now, and the factory won't take it - Go to a high end shop, Trunbull or Bowen, then prepare to pay and wait!

Hope you did get it at a good price ... because to do it right will make up the difference. If it were mine I'd leave it alone and just shoot it!

Roy Jinks has stated that the bluing process from the 1850s till about 1978 was carbona bluing. Carbona is a very different process from hot salts (tank bluing) like Ford's uses.

Carbona uses heat, charcoal, oil, and possibly pressure judging ONLY by the appearance of the ovens.

You can see a pic of the ovens used for carbona here-
Raw Steel to Smith & Wesson (Pic HEAVY) pic 47

Roy was, among other positions, Production Manager at S&W.
He has stated that it became increasingly difficult to get good bone for the charcoal in the 1970s. Since barrels, frames, and cylinders were blued separately, the colors sometimes varied. This resulted in many complaints.
So, in 1978, the company began phasing into the hot salts (tank) bluing because a uniform color was easier to maintain.

In my opinion and observation, the two finishes are different enough to be distinguishable if one handles enough guns and/or compares them side-by-side.
Hands down, carbona is PRETTIER!

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

OK! its your gun, do with it as you please. If you do re-blue, you have just another re-done gun. It may look so good you will not shoot it.
If you do, you have taken one more original out of circulation. If it was mine, which it is not, Clean, shoot and clean. If it makes you happy, go do it.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Turnbull Restoration & Manufacturing . If you going to get it done, have it done right. You will be happy-happy with his work and not singing the "I shouldn't have let the gun butcher ruin my S&W" blues.
Having a beautiful reblue by a true artist is priceless.
Gary

Since I do hot tank bluing I will put my two cents in. As stated above it is all in the metal work, polishing and cleaning. I just finished an LC Smith double barrel hammer gun that I put 65 hours in the metal work. Any reputable refinisher who knows what they are doing can refinish your gun and do it the way you want. It all depends on how bad your gun is. Does it have a lot of pitting and deep scratches? The bluing loss and wear don't matter.
If your gun doesn't need a lot of metal work expect to pay around $400. If you can disassemble the gun yourself you can save a little money. But only if you have the proper punches and screwdriver bits. Make sure you take the grips off and don't ship them with the gun, they don't need them. Ship the gun in the strongest box you can find. And get insurance!
If you have any questions about refinishing, p.m. me.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

How about some pictures of the gun in question.

I won't take sides on the morality of re-bluing performed on any specific gun because I don't particularly care about that, as it's your gun and your money to handle as you wish. But there is definitely an economic consideration to be pondered. Selling the gun as it presently is and taking the sale proceeds plus what would have been spent in total for a first-class blue job (including shipment expense) would probably buy a pre-Model 27 in far better condition. On the other hand, bluing the existing gun would result in a gun which, after bluing, will bring little, if any, more at sale than the gun would realize prior to the re-blue, and with very little future appreciation potential if held. Whereas, the replacement gun in better condition, if purchased in the first place, would continue to appreciate over time. My philosophy has been that if you want a gun that looks like new, you should buy one which looks like new in the first place. You will be monetarily ahead by doing that.

The custom Low Wall rifle shown below has the action charcoal blued, a version of so-called carbonia blue by Turnbull, the barrel was rust blued and the screws nitre blued in my workshop. For contrast the scope tube above was commercially hot salts blued.
No knock on Turnbull's carbonia as I often use it but is is a lighter, brilliant blue more like Colt that S&W and I wouldn't and I don't think Doug Turnbull recommends this bluing for S&W restoration. He blued a NM #3 for me a few years back.
There are a few small shop restoration guys that might take on an S&W and do a good job, but you would have to ferret them out.
The 3rd Model single shot below as done by Steve Moeller in Indiana for me more than 20 years ago. It has a darker, but still not a dead ringer for S&W blue (screws were nitre blued). Moeller is still in business but I don't know if he would be interested. You could find him through the American Custom Gunmakers Guild web site.
Some fellows will blue parts if you disassemble, polish and prepare and are willing to do your own reassembly.

Custom Low Wall in .17HMR


Restored Single Shot with custom grips.


High polish blue on my 1954 pre-27.

I do not believe there is any economic consideration involved at all.
If you find the gun you have all ways wanted, you think about making it as new for your own enjoyment with no thought of selling it down the road. We have all seen Fords work, the man is an artisan, well beyond a mere craftsman. Just my thoughts from an old gun/furniture guy that likes to leave history alone.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I found one just like yours, 1953 pre-27 with a 6-inch barrel, in a now out-of-business gun shop near me in down east Maine. Finish was quite poor at about 50%. It had an uneven, blotchy appearance, lots of holster wear, a network of fine scratches but no rust or pits. Looked like the extractor star had caught the left sideplate a few times during reloading. Mechanically excellent though. Like you I 'bought right" and had relatively little invested in it.

In my view, these guns are supposed to be pretty. There was no history to this gun, like having been owned by a local Sheriff or hero trooper or famous Maine Guide, etc. Wasn't owned or carried by a family member of mine. So I decided to have it redone.

S&W won't touch these any more. Bowen didn't want to do it (can't remember the reason why). Turnbull doesn't do Smiths.

A very talented gunsmith who is nationally known for double shotgun work summers here. He did an excellent job with it. The only real disadvantage to having it redone is that it really will be a shame to mess it up. Almost too nice. Almost.

A collector would never have wanted this gun in its original condition, at least not without some significant provenance. High condition museum quality sells, low does not.

The collector purpose my gun served when it was homely was so that those who already own high condition pre-27s could have a great deal of satisfaction concerning their pretty ones when compared to mine. What i had dome to this gun affects no one else's value in the slightest.

The only one I have to satisfy is me. And if I ever want to "make amends" and atone for my sin, I'll just have it engraved.

" Turnbull doesn't do Smiths."
I think that is correct. When I read this it jogged my memory. I was talking to someone several years ago who told me he wanted to send some S&W to Turnbull for a full finish, but Turnbull wouldn't work on it. He would do only Colts, I think.

Mr. Murdock, Pretty is in the eyes of the beholder. Hey, I changed it, so what. You get my drift. Its his gun, hard chrome it for all I care. Just an other original off the market.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Really no need to look beyond Ford's for the re blue.Just look at their pictures and decide if that is how you want your gun to come out.

I was going to say what Dwalt said ---then I saw that he had already said it. Most logical and wise comment here.

I've said it before here: have done what sodacan is planning. Am very happy with the work done by Ford's. I fully realize that the value of the refinished gun is not what I have in it, and I'm happy with the way it looks today...bright turn line too It looks as it should, and shoots well. Anything beyond that is a bonus. And by the time I'm done with it, it'll look a lot like it did when I bought it, and no one will be dropping several hundred bucks on an old revolver. Phased plasma rifles in the 40-watt range will be the rage.

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50 Years of DSOTM

To me a really well rebuilt/refinished and or modified firearm is the same as some of the hotrodders. Let's face it some of the car guys like their cars exactly as they came off the showroom floor. But some of us like hotrods! It is the same with guns. But only if they are well done.

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Tom
NRA Pistol Inst

I spoke with Turnbull about 6 months ago. At that time they would not work on Smiths.

Anyone ever have Ron'd Gun Shop in Oshkosh, Wisconsin do any refinish work? They say they do carbonia blue and if I remember correctly they did the carbonia blue on Colt's O1911 WWI repros a few years ago.

I just wonder how there works stacks up.

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Bill Bates