Info. from Roy clarified fact that many factory invoices did
not specify Magna or Standard stocks on K22/40's other than
to say checkered walnut stocks with silver medallions. Do any of you K22/40 Owners have Magna stocks w/out stamped
S/N? Mine are blank, which some have said is quite typical. Revolver shipped April, 1940.

In my opinion, if they're not numbered, it would be hard for me to believe they shipped on the gun from the factory. Stocks that were numbered to a particular gun were fitted to that gun. Stocks were also available as accessory items and those aren't numbered.

Mark

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S&W Forum Member #721

It is rather common of the K22/40 to have unnumbered magna grips, and nothing to be alarmed of. The fit of the grips should tell you if they are original or not..

With (a very) few glaring exceptions, the original stocks are fitted to and numbered to the frame----it was ever thus---up until it wasn't---whenever that was---substantially post WWII.

The stocks on my K-22/40 are one of the glaring exceptions---at least I have made a case for such which is acceptable to me. Whether or not it's acceptable to you remains to be seen.

Mine, #682435, was shipped March 21, 1940----with "checkered walnut silver medallion grips with grip adapter attached". The silver medallion grips on my gun are not numbered. The back side is absolutely pristine----which is to say it/they (also) are not imprinted/otherwise discolored in the shape of the grip frame outline----as is the case with (damn near) every gun I own. It's almost as though they (the grips) spent the vast majority of their life up against a grip adapter---as they are now.

Okay, why weren't my grips fitted (and numbered) to my frame? They weren't fitted to my frame because they don't go on the frame, they go on the grip adapter-----which is also not fitted to my frame. Ergo there is no need to fit anything to anything else----and they didn't.

If you buy that, everybody's happy. If you don't buy that, I'm still happy----and it's too bad about you.

Ralph Tremaine

My speculation continues thus: My gun is clearly a special order. I suspect this is how the special order was filled. A gun with fitted/numbered Magna's (only because almost all the 22/40's I've seen wear Magna's) was snatched out of inventory and delivered to the Service Department with instructions to install a grip adapter (and of necessity, change the grips). (For the neophytes in the audience, pre-war grip adapters don't work with Magna's.) That task was completed in about five minutes----tops----and it was off to the shipping folks.

Saw a copy of an invoice for one of those with grip adapter and magna stocks (wonder how they fitted those), shipped March 29, 1940. $14.55, not sure if that is retail or wholesale price. Really neat guns!

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PTLAPTA!

The $14.55 is S&W's cost to manufacture the gun---and may include the shipping---which was shipped to the recipient as a "freebie". The $14.55 is/was the amount charged to the advertising account.

As an aside, I have copies of the invoices for four other 22/40's so shipped----mine to Philip B. Sharpe, #684452 shipped to Elmer Keith, #684402 shipped to Sgt. Ed Seibolt (Boston PD), and #684418 shipped to Sgt. John M. Crowley (Providence RI) PD.

It is perhaps noteworthy none of these invoices note the type of stocks----only that they were shipped with grip adapter.

As another aside, if one were to install Magna stocks over a grip adapter, the "horns" would stand off the frame a bit----like .060" per side----thereabouts----rather tacky. Of course, if the recipient was bound and determined to have Magna's ----and was bothered by tacky, the back side of the Magna's could easily be ground down by the offending .060"--thereby transforming the pleasingly plump grip into a stylishly slim grip like it was to begin with----and he'd still have the filler between the trigger guard and the grip frame. That said, it seems more respectful of one's time and energy to simply fit a snap-in filler to the gun. But then, there are different strokes for different folks. It was ever thus!

Ralph Tremaine

Well, I know how stocks were fitted to revolvers thus explaining need to stamp S/N on stocks for assembly down the road. Since quite a few K22/40 Owner's have un-numbered stocks, and since Magnas were offered at a no-charge option,
and since S&W was gearing up for WWII production, probable that things were changing on the factory floor. My stocks were
obviously fit to frame. Could be someone found method of matching stocks to frames w/out stamping s/n, or need to
expedite production forced change in older practices.

I have owned three K22/40s all high condition with their original numbered boxes. All three wore perfectly fitted unnumbered magna grips. Prior to the production of the K22/40 it was factory protocol to number all of the grips. For some reason we can only speculate, the factory did not number many of the grips that went on the K22/40. The gun you have is a very very nice gun, it truly ranks up there with the best of that model that survived. It is also unique that it was shipped in an Outdoorsman box with a K-22-40 sticker on the bottom with the guns matching serial number. I know this because I used to own your fine gun. Feel fortunate to have such a fine piece and don't get hung up on something we can only speculate on. Congratulations, I'm pleased it went to a good home.

Chad Gripp

Chad; Thank You for your reply. First time I have ever corresponded with a previous owner. I was, and am, delighted
with piece as it had been on my "Wish List" for some time.
You confirmed what I had absorbed from previous forum discussions on the matter. P.S. if you know where I could find
a bore brush and swab for the K22/40 it would be appreciated.
Last thing I need to complete box contents. Most difficult to find, I realize. Thank you for your care while the revolver was in your possession.

Cordially:
Andy Blaser

Two possibilities come to mind as explanations for unnumbered stocks shipped on a gun at this point in time. One of them actually makes some sense.

Possibility #1: The stocks were fitted to a gun in the normal fashion (unfinished stocks fit to an unfinished frame) and then proceeded through the balance of the manufacturing process as a single gun---all by its lonesome---and everybody involved in the (entire) process knew about it ahead of time. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?!!!!

Possibility #2: An order arrives for a gun with X stocks. The only guns in inventory wear Y stocks. A gun with Y stocks is pulled and sent to the Service Department with instructions to fit X stocks. It takes some longer than normal because unfinished stocks are being fit to a finished frame----and one little boo-boo becomes a major problem. But these guys are good, and the job gets done---no problem. That gun goes out the door with unnumbered stocks because there's no need to number them.

Why does #2 make some sense? It was fairly common the fill orders for (top break) target guns by pulling standard guns from stock and replacing the sights. Those guns were done one at a time, start to finish, and left the Service Department with unnumbered latches/sights-----and they letter as target guns.

My two cents worth!

My additional two cents worth is to suppose any gun produced in the normal fashion during this time period was shipped with unnumbered stocks really stretches credibility to the breaking point.

Ralph Tremaine

I have a pair of prewar k frame magnas 691394
Like to reunite them some day with the gun owner.

I think they came off a 22/40 as I have not noticed any MP Targets that high. It is pretty interesting the unmarked serial number question. Are N frame magnas in the same time frame showing the same blank backs?

"Are N frame magnas------same blank backs?" Not that I know of, but the more special the gun, the more frantic and creative we become to rationalize any warts.

That said, the real purpose of this response is to thank you for reminding me of special grips for a (very likely) special gun. I have a pair of pre-war N-frame Magna's----numbered. The number is 52426. They're essentially as new----early grips (unmarked stock circles). They belong somewhere else besides my woodpile. N-frame #52426, where are you? You could be a .44 HE 2nd---or 3rd----or a Registered Magnum.

Ralph Tremaine

HI Ralph, I don't think of the unnumbered grips as being warts. Just an interesting anomaly that makes me curious what may have been going on in that time frame of Smith gun making.

The lack of missing serial numbers(blank backs) on N frames of the same time frame makes me think your possibility (2) could be very plausible. K magnas could have been the hot item of the time and could have been switched and done quickly enough not to need a stamp. N frame magnas had been out for years already.

Likely we will never know for sure.

Here is a K-22/40 I brokered a few years ago-


The gun is in an Outdoorsman box stamped "K-22-40)" on the paper tape and numbered to the gun-


The service grips were numbered to the gun.

In the first pic, you see the original sales receipt for the gun, along with that original owner's "inspection" (registration) card (see attached pics below) for THAT gun. Note that he bought it in Jan, 1941.





My take on UN-numbered magnas on a K-22/40-
Okayyyyy............
So an order comes in for a 22/40 with magna grips.

It is late 1940 or early 1941, and we're up to our butts with orders from those pesky Brits whom we owe a million dollars to that are waiting for the Huns to start wading onto the beaches.

BUT, there are 22/40s sitting in the vault, all finished and ready to go, but wearing service grips.
Soooooooo, Carl Hellstrom looks at a production manager and asks:
"Ya think you could find anybody skilled enough to try 3 or 4 pairs of magnas on a 22/40 and find a pair that fits and ship the guy a gun so I can deposit the check?"

Whatcha think happened then?

I'm thinkin a pair of magnas that fit really well were found for the gun, it was shipped, the check was deposited, Carl was happy, the new owner was happy, the Brits were gettin happier, and the guy Carl just chewed on was happy to get Carl off his back.

And they all lived happily ever after.

Attached Images

	K-22-40 003.jpg (146.0 KB, 58 views)
	K-22-40 004.jpg (139.4 KB, 51 views)

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

One of my 22/40's - no numbers on the backs of the magnas and it also shipped in a "22-40" stamped Outdoorsman Box ...







The 22-40 Masterpieces are the cream of the 22 LR crop. And If Chad says that it is "very very nice", then it is something very special.

Congrats,

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

My K-22/40 also has un-numbered magnas. I'm wondering how many out there are wearing NUMBERED magnas?. Seems the only K-22/40's I hear about have numbered service stocks or un-numbered magnas.

This one was shipped as a "special" with MAGNA stocks and grip adapter. How would these be fitted? As Ralph mentions above, they leave about .060" gap on each side if just placed on top of adapter. Cutting down the backside .060" would eliminate the gap, but the stocks would be smaller than the frame and especially look funny on the "horn".
Any ideas? Does anyone have one with that combination?

Attached Images

S&W-EK2240inv.jpg (31.1 KB, 48 views)

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PTLAPTA!

I've seen a few guns so fitted.
Perhaps they started with a set of unfinished stocks that were larger in outline because they had never been reduced to fit a frame. I say that because they did not seem unusually small.
At any rate, it was accomplished by simply sanding the backs of the grips, including the metal circles, down the required amount to get the horns back against the frame. The horns, being a rebated surface, were not touched.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

S&W ucla,

I've also crossed paths with a few K-22/40's over the years as well having been shipped with the Grip Adapter "Attached" & Magna Stocks...One of which had a notation in Roy's Letter having to be Special-Ordered in this configuration!!

I'm also in agreement as to how Lee noted they were most likely fitted so not as to have them "Look Funny" when installed...As you put it!!

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Masterpiece

Thank all of you members for taking the time to reply to my original inquiry. Great source of information for collectors. Your comments are
greatly appreciated.
Andy

E49 - please show the inside of the grip panels and how they are Modified.

Engine49guy,
Are those stocks numbered to the gun? A few pics of how they fit would be great. One of the butt, inside of stock, backside of grip. Do they fit the grip adapter exactly or are they undersize? Yours is the first one I've seen, beautiful gun!
Thanks

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PTLAPTA!

I dont have any pics of the inside but like Lee said the inside wood and washer were sanded down below the horn to compensate for the thickness of the metal GA plates,
Interestingly IIRC they fit on my model 12 SB (without the grip adapter) near perfect so if you have a pair of Model 12 SB Magnas on hand you can try them with your grip adapter to see if you like the feel.

No serial inside and the aluminum washer was sanded down as well.

This pic shows a little bit more backstrap but dont forget the grips do not fit against the frame anymore they fit against the grip adapter plate ,
The thickness of the plate is the amount that was removed from the inside of the grips.


The grips and adapter came on the gun when I purchased it so no info on who when or why it was done, I saw the gun and fell in love with its uniqueness.....Also fits nicer in my large hands than the service grips with GA.

Getting ready for a trip and dont have time to fish them out for pics but maybe when I return if needed.

Love those K-22s!! Have a great trip!!
Thanks

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PTLAPTA!

Just remembered I have some pics from when I was trying them on my Model 12

I have a K22 Outdoorsman (not a /40) that has perfectly fitted pre war Magna stocks. They are un-numbered. I believe them to be original to the gun. Serial number is 663802.

I can take a little heat from the GF...I mean after all its S&W stuff and takes precedence right ha ha..

BTW my cameras were dead so had to figure out how to do it with the phone:



There is an appearence like they started by carving but then switched to some sort of sanding as they are flush.

Thanks for pics Engine49guy.
Someone had fun at their workbench (and some sandpaper) with those

That was always my assumption, I would love to see some for comparison.

The N frame GA / Magna combo has been well documented but the K frame GA / Magna combo is a bit of an unexplored phenomenon right now.