Need Info on Old 45 DA Non Military Issued

[Rksebring]

I just acquired a Hand Ejector, S.N. 196431, S&W D.A. 45 with Lanyard Swivel and a 5 1/2" Barrel...
I would just like to know a little about it. I was told from the person that I got it from it was a M1937 From Brazil.... But I believe that is way off.. There is no markings that would substantiate that claim. But unlike my Nickel Plated US Army Model 17 that was Government Issued, This is not a Govt. issued one either..
So that's about all I got.. I would just like to know when it was made and which 45 rounds I can use and if I need the Half Moon and Full Moon Clips I got with it?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[22hipower]

Serial number seems correct for Brazilian production. See this earlier post/ link for detailed SN info:

Serial Number range for the 1917 Commercial?

Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

[Jack Flash]

I shoot just about any commercial or handloaded .45 ACP in mine. The great thing about a revolver is you don't have to worry about bullet shape since the rounds don't have to feed through a magazine. I do stay away from +P, but I don't know if that is necessary.

You do not absolutely need clips. If you do not use them, the extractor star can't contact the rimless cases so you will need to pluck or poke the empties out. Or maybe some/all will fall out if you open the cylinder and point the barrel straight up.

So there is no Brazilian crest on the sideplate? Why did the guy say it is a Brazilian? I wonder if some markings were removed and/or if it was refinished. The serial number would put it in the first group, which were shipped to Brazil circa 1938.

[Rksebring]

22Hipower I agree in its the Range.. But from what I gathered is not Every SN in that range went. It was scattered.. The only reason I question it is I don't have the Brazilian markings.. It would make sense to me if it did lol

[Rksebring]

Jack I had another one but it was a U.S. Army Model 1917 Government issued.. I loved it.

[deyomatic]

It looks like it is a dull finish. Is it parkerized now? Can you post closer photos of where the crest would be? I wonder if it was lost in a refinish.

[murphydog]

A photo of the right side (sideplate) might help here. It may be a inter-war 1917 Commercial model, but given the odds and the Parkerized finish it is more likely a refinished 1937. A factory letter would tell you for certain:

Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

[Jack Flash]

This could be a case where a factory letter is called for. Commercial M1917s are a lot more valuable than Brazilians, so you would want to know.

[Kinman]

My Brazilian model was nicely refinished by a competent individual. Nearly all visible pitting was removed, the Brazilian Crest is barely visible with only the date 1937 being fairly prominent, Smith &Wesson is visible on the barrel, along with top writing and S&W Trademark under cylinder release. With the shiney re-blue it is a very attractive pistol, along with some dark rosewood stocks I had in waiting. I was also under the impression that many Brazilian models did not have a lanyard loop and in fact were basically commercial models. I have heard any number of rumors from as many authors but never heard anything definitive, especially concerning the rumor about the Brazilian models being built of better (stronger) steel than the WWI issued models.

[Skeetr57]

Not all Brazilian models a are alike or equal. The first contract guns were built using new frames of the 1930's time frame. The frames would have the better front and rear sights of the period and hammer block safeties. The second contract guns built after WWII were built on surplus WWI frames, so will have the narrow front and rear sights in a round top frame and no hammer block safety. As for strength, I doubt that there would be any difference, since the WWI issue guns had heat treated cylinders.

[red9]

The gun is definitely refinished (matte finish, matching hammer and trigger). If Brazilian, it originally had the crest on the sideplate. If commercial, it would have had a small S&W logo on the left side. Look for traces of either under the finish. The wood stocks are possibly slightly modified Smith's, but not original to this gun (Of course, I may be wrong. Look inside the right for a serial number.) All Brazilians I have seen came with checkered medallion stocks; the commercials were checkered with or without medallions.

Bob

[Kinman]

I think that is what may lead some folks to believe that the Brazilian revolvers were basically commercial models, due to the S&W logo on the left side. Do they all have the logo? Mine has the hammer block and cut-out rear sight making it an early model. I really enjoy shooting this pistol, much more than most I have owned. I have been casting 200 gr. SWC and using 4.3gr of Bullseye, shoots pretty well. I am going to cut that back to 3.8gr. and give that a try, should be very pleasant to shoot and cheap as well. I don't mind the full moon clips, I spend most of my time shooting black powder rifles so I'm used to fiddling around with stuff and am never in a hurry to get a shot off.

[Jack Flash]

I think at least the 1946 shipments (second group) of M1917s for Brazil had just about any stocks S&W could find laying around. Here's mine with the early style WWI stocks that were on it when I purchased it. Of course, I can't prove it shipped with these, but it's a good bet.

[iskra]

Once upon a time… I thought I actually had the Smith 1917 post WWI commercial genre figured out. Now this thread puts the pea under yet another series of shells and they seem to be moving more quickly than my eye can follow! I’ve reviewed the material here and in the Forum link to the 2012 Brazilian contract discussion there.

Now part of my ‘new & improved’ net takeaway concerning the Brazilians: The earlier serial number guns had the later features and the later numbered guns the earlier features which makes the later feature model actually earlier ones and more desirable than the earlier feature guns which are actually the later products! Err… Huh?

Excuse me, but does all this sound a lot like a "Madman Muntz" used car ad of a half century ago? Somehow I’m seeing a parallel with a ’53 Nash Metropolitan being touted as superior to a ’63 Mercedes Gull Wing Coupe. Next I expect to hear that Smith lost money on every one of these guns they sold… and only made a profit by selling them in volume!!!

My Brazilian - small S&W logo under cylinder latch - Brazilian crest right sideplate - ‘utility finish’, is SN 1680xx. Just for info too, my post WWII commercial finished, large logo right sideplate, is (NO “S” prefix) SN 2099xx, with commercial finish.

Is there a ‘real world’ net, net here for simply folk like me?
A ‘pensive’ hold that "Pea"… take

[Muley Gil]

The post WW II shipment of 1917 Brazilian revolvers used a group of WW I era frames that S&W "found" at the factory. That's why they had the older features like the dimple rear sight.

The pre WW II shipment of 1917 Brazilian revolvers used all new made (1937-38 era) frames and had the flat top frame and the square notch rear sight.

[iskra]

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

The post WW II shipment of 1917 Brazilian revolvers used a group of WW I era frames that S&W "found" at the factory. That's why they had the older features like the dimple rear sight.

The pre WW II shipment of 1917 Brazilian revolvers used all new made (1937-38 era) frames and had the flat top frame and the square notch rear sight.

Thank you Muley Gil! I do understand the phenomenon of so called "factory parts clean up". Just post WWII Winchester did the same thing with prewar Model 70 barrels, creating a prospective collector blitz opportunity in moving some quite rare chamberings into the market. Perhaps a parallel with those similarly timed postwar Model 1917s.

Beyond the humor I was poking, are two matters perhaps now simply requiring confirmation. One whether a blanket statement: all nineteen thirties production Brazilians were necessarily the 'new & improved' frame design AND all of the post WWII contract Brazilians were of the so-called 'older' design.

Then, hopefully not a point too far, yet the logically related matter of where that leaves such as my postwar Model 1917 within the presumptive commercial serial range - 2099xx, yet without an "S" prefix! A new model frame or an old model frame? (Here presently working with file photos; access to my gun safe now blocked due to kitchen remodel stuff.) I am taking the liberty of throwing in several pix of my 'usual suspect' postwar 1917. Such in the hope one of you experts may have a solution from these few photos. (With incorrect grips).

Just an inquiring take.

[murphydog]

This is a 1917 Postwar (WW II) Transitional.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/searchr...sitional&sa=Go

[iskra]

To add my voice here saying thanks for a lot of valuable information. Particularly useful to have some of the bits & pieces I've see before concerning these post WWI & post WWII products referenced together. That and the gathering of contributing experts here too!

My own 1917 reflected in this thread clearly in the "transitional' ranks by SN, but the matter of the 'non S prefix' always somewhat baffling since I learned of the distinction. Now lingering questions whether such representing some purposeful distinction as suggested and a unique combination itself forming something of a 'bridge' model between old and new... or just a ho-hum blip on the radar.

Next my own homework to have a good analytic look at this gun, bought mid-nineteen eighties from a shop where it was offered and accepted as just a clean Model 1917!

Thanks to the Thread author for initiating here concerning his Brazilian and again to all the assisting contributors!

Last, hopefully excusing some of the peripheral humor with which I adorn my own life and perhaps too happily share!

Now better informed, research clarified and...
My take

[murphydog]

Some of the postwar Transitionals had the S prefix, and some not. I don't know anyone finding any pattern, as in earlier numbers without and later with the new hammer block.