Glad it lettered out right.
Good for you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by opoefc
Roy's letters reflect only what the shipping records show and an invoice search is beyond anything Roy's time allows.
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The shipping records are large books that were custom printed to list serial numbers line by line-
1234
1235
1236
1237
There is a book for each serial number sequence:
I Frames
K Frames (38 cal)
K Frames (32/20)
N Frames
455s
1917s
etc, etc
There was a space for the ship date to be written.
There was a space for the receiver's name. For dealers and distributors that received a lot of guns, they had a rubber stamp made.
So, the shipping logs will only tell Roy the date and recipient of a specific gun. Other than knowing what model or frame it is, there is NO data about the gun in the ship log.
NO mention of finish or barrel length or sights or grips.
On the I frames numbered together, like the 32 HE and the 22/32s, I THINK they are all in the same log, so Roy won't even know the caliber by the ship log data.
It is my understanding that Roy calls or faxes a date and serial number to the museum, and THEY pull the invoice for him and give him the gun's data.
The invoices are filed by date.
Invoices are dated the day the gun shipped.
So, Roy says
"Invoice for Dec 8, 1937, 38 M&P(cause he got the date from the K Frame M&P Log Book), # 664337."
That is the only way he can give us the finish, barrel length, type of grips, sights, custom features, etc.
I'm sure he usually does this in "batches" of several guns.
NONE of that data is in the shipping logs.
When your gun comes back as the dreaded
"OPEN on the Books", it means that serial number line is BLANK (as in 'Open') in the shipping records.
That means there is NO date known for the gun leaving.
Again, invoices are filed by date, so even if an invoice was ever made up, there is no convenient way to search for it.
People always start chattering about Open guns being stolen when that was rarely, if ever, the case.
Guns were signed out to salesmen on memos.
Guns were sent to PDs and other entities for evaluation on memos.
Guns were displayed in various places in the Factory for YEARS, and then sold, and maybe not logged properly because they figured it was done years before.
Guns were taken to big matches and given as trophies, and probably weren't always logged properly because they were charged as "Advertising".
I think some guns were given as gifts, and possibly never properly logged out, either through carelessness or poor or incomplete communication. I know for a fact of several guns Hellstrom gave away, and I bet ol' D.B. gave a few away.
I've owned five guns that were Open on the Books, and two of them had unusual features. Were they gifts or 'samples'?
In large shipments, I think numbers sometimes just got missed in the rush to ship!
Two other Open guns I owned were common 38 M&Ps that fell right in the middle of military orders- one in WW II, the other during the Korean War.
The fifth gun was a Model 57.
You have to remember ATF as we know it hasn't always existed, and they weren't as tough or as strong or as demanding in the early days.