I read in a forum post that when a revolver is repaired or refinished by S&W at the factory that there are stampings on the frame underneath the grips to identify that factory rework has been done.

Any information about this and what to look for would be appreciated.

VaTom

I'm no expert but there may be star on the butt which is usually associated with a refinish. You may see R-N meaning refinished to nickel from blue. There is often a date on the grip frame like 8.75 meaning the work was done in August of 1975. A stamp on underside of barrel may indicate a barrel swap. Most often the exact nature of the work is unknown and that can be frustrating.

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No life story has happy end.

This stamp is for a refinish in nickel, regardless of original finish. Other stamps include "R-S" aka refinish - standard (blue), "R-B" aka refinish - blue. Other times a diamond with a "B" inside is seen for refinish in blue. Barrel rework markings were often a diamond, which indicated rework or replacement. Sometimes the serial number was re-applied, sometimes not, depending on when the barrel was replaced. This is also true of the cylinder. Sometimes a "S" with a diamond is found, instead of just a diamond marking. Date codes are sometimes 6 digits, such as 10.17.39 although they are normally month / year. Sometimes a star is by itself, sometimes a date code is by itself (on the grip frame).

S&W discontinued marking the guns when reworked either in the 70s or 80s. I called them and asked this very question a few years ago when I was having a 27-2 re-plated. They informed me that they do not presently mark the guns sent in for rework / refinish in anyway. Since the details of the rework was filed under the sender's name, and not the serial number (except perhaps in rare cases), the work which was actually done is largely unknown today.

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

Thanks for the information!

I have a Model 1917 Commercial that has been professionally refinished at some point prior to my acquiring it.

Serial numbers on frame, barrel, cylinder, crane and grips match. Assembly numbers on frame and crane match.

However there is a B stamped on the flat underside of the barrel where the serial number is stamped. Do not find this anywhere else on the revolver.

On the frame under the grips is an N 1 stamping.

Any idea what the B would stand for?

The "B" ahead of the serial number, under the barrel, means that your revolver left the factory with a blued finish.

By the way, Colts have cranes. S&Ws have yokes.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks - Can't keep yokes and cranes straight. Old age!

S&W cylinders rotate counter clockwise and Colts clockwise - I think I got that one right. Only have 1 Colt revolver vs. 4 S&W revolvers!

Here is a picture of the S&W Star on an old revolver of mine.

Attached Images

S&W Star Stamp.jpg (68.4 KB, 340 views)

Since colt made swing out cylinders first, this settles the old question: which came first, the bird or the yolk?

Also by the way, I recall Handejector posting that rework dates were never 6 digits.

Tom,

Never fear! Here is a handy-dandy little diagram I made to help you keep it straight!

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

I guess my pre war 44 did not get the memo! Now technically this is a 5 digit code, but anyone can see, that in the way they did this code, if it was done in say, October, for example, it would then have been a 6 digit code!

Hopefully Lee never tells you to jump off a cliff! There would likely be disastrous consequences observed!

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

Lee wrote rework date stamps that included the day of the month were faked. Other than saying that I would not bet my money that they are authentic I do not know which of you is correct.

Well there is no way that date code on my revolver was faked! The gun also has a circle P stamping, which refers to re-plate.

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

The one in the picture above is date stamped 5 29. There is no dash and it the spacing between the 5 and the 29 is about the width of thee to four digits.

of course, this was back in May of 1929. S&W could of worn their punch tools out and had to acquire a new one after a half a century.

These are some service marks on a gun I own---and that I sent back for work. I do not actually KNOW what these marks mean (some of them anyway), but I know what I asked them to do----and I know what they did---sort of.

The date stamp is easy: 460---April 1960----LH grip frame (where the "stocks" go).

S<> on the same grip frame.

S <> on the barrel flat.

S <> on the cylinder (under the ejector).

What did I ask for? Refinish from matte blue to bright blue----because I wasn't willing to wait six months for a special ordered bright blue gun. It took two weeks this way. I asked that their very best craftsman go through the gun and make it as perfect as it could be.

What did they do? They refinished as instructed----with absolutely NO sign it had been refinished. They changed the timing of the bolt/cylinder stop such that there's no turn ring (except for about 1/16" just before the lead into the cylinder stop notch at each chamber-----after fifty some odd years, and about a half a boxcar full of ammo run through it. Whatever else they did was magic, because it was/is SLICK!!

What didn't they do? They didn't do anything (besides refinish) to the barrel. So why does the barrel carry the service mark noted above? Good question. I have no answer. Ditto for the cylinder.

That's it---end of report.

As an aside (on another gun). This is a nickel gun from the 30's---very spiffy. Star on the left side of the grip frame. Star on the cylinder (under the ejector). Star on the barrel (inside the ejector rod shroud). Star on the yoke/crane. Star on the inside of the sideplate. The innards appear to be brand new. This gun was shipped to a police department. It was either put into a sock drawer immediately upon arrival---or was COMPLETETLY rebuilt later on. When? Another good question. There's a five digit stamping on the left grip frame---no .'s, no -'s, no /'s, no spaces. Could it be a date? Absolutely---one of two different dates actually. There are no other markings of any sort (other than typical fitter/inspector codes).

Go figure!

Ralph Tremaine

Welcome to the forum.

It is possible that the 5 digit date stamping in the photo above was done by someone outside the factory but with knowledge of factory policy about stamping the date.

It is also possible that it was done by a first day on the job employee that didn't get the memo regarding the correct way to apply the date stamp.

It is also possible that 8 . 26 . 29 was the employees birthday and he wanted to commemorate his birth date for all time on this particular gun. Or that he was ticked off because he had to work on his birthday. Or he was hung over from the weekend since 8/26/1929 was a Monday.

I think that sometimes although the investigation behind a gun is more fun than just putting it in a drawer, we get way too wrapped up in the minute details over markings that will never be explained and will only make your brain hurt trying to understand. Anything short of being there and looking over the workers shoulder is pure speculation on our part.

With anything S&W there are going to be weird things. Missing roll stamps, unusual markings, sights that should not have yet been available etc.

Sometimes we just have to realize that we may never know all the answers and that especially with S&W's, nothing is ever hard and fast.

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James Redfield
LM #497

What would a S in a triangle (much like a pool rack) signify?
There is also a circle with an R in it?
There's also 5 numbers with no spaces?

Welcome to the Forum, David.

What model revolver do you have and can you post pictures of the stampings?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

These are all on the right grip of the frame under the grip.

It is a 27-2 5" Nickel in the original wood case with the paper work. No pics. I bought it at a gun show today for $1200.00, if it isn't right I could return it tomorrow.

Every time I think I know something about rework/refinsh stamps I get contradicted but we can safely say that if it matches the other two assembly numbers the 5 digit number has nothing to do with rework. The other two will be on the back side of the side plate and on the yoke. Frame assembly numbers were moved from the yoke cut out to the left side of the grip frame to make room for stamping model numbers so we expect it to be on your 27-2's grip frame.

Right or left? I expect all these rework/refinish stamps and the frame assembly number will not be on the same side as the side plate.

Changing the topic slightly, in the two years since this thread went dormant Handejector has posted that he never wrote that rework dates never contain the day of the month. One of us must not have the sharp memory we had in our youth.

Also, Hondo44 has been posting that the service department stamped an S or two on revolvers that they altered to fill a special order. Consequently, revolvers that were never shipped back to S&W sometimes have the service department's S stamp. However he did not write that their S would be inside a triangle or diamond.

That sounds like a decent price these days. I believe those are assembler's markings.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

K22fan,

You're correct.

Service dept S stamps are not in circles or triangles. The service dept S stamp are always on the left side by the 'heel' of the grip frame with or w/o a diamond.

Those are inspector stamps in circles and triangles and usually on the right side of grip frame, but are also seen on the left side in the middle of the butt, and show up on -2 vintage guns and later.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks to all for your inputs!

I'll try to get photos and post later - just got a M19-2 (thanks to old bear) that appears to have been nickeled by S&W, and it has attendant dates, etc. My first nickeled gun and my first with rework stamps.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

Is there any recollection that rework dates were ever 5 digits?

I had one with 5 digits (on the grip frame, with no unusual spacing and no symbols in between any of the numbers). It could have been a date---two different dates actually. I decided it wasn't a date simply because of that ambiguity. (Well, that was the best I could come up with on short notice.)

As an aside, it for sure had been back to the factory for something----5 stars---one each on frame, barrel, cylinder, yoke, and sideplate.

Ralph Tremaine

Read the second to last paragraph of my reply #20.

Ralph,

Refinish and date stamp usage is generally accepted to have declined in the late 1970s when most 5 or 6 digit dates have been observed, sporadic use after that, and was eventually eliminated altogether not too long after. Reportedly no date stamps have been observed since 1983.

Usually present with dates are letters in a rectangle or diamond, B (blue), N (nickel), or S (standard/blue) with an R (for refinish), on 'heel' of left side of grip frame. There might also be marks in diamonds like <S> (silver), <G> (gold), or a P (plated) with a circle. In the 1960s period, an S<> on grip frame and under barrel with a rework date meant refinish, standard (blue). Which stamping was used depended on the time frame and service technician working on the gun. An RE (refinish) in a circle at the heel on left side of grip frame has also been observed as one of the last stampings used.

That's truly a rare example of star usage, although so many stamped locations are not unheard of, it's seldom seen!

Where is the star stamped on the sideplate located?

STAR USAGE:
On the bottom of the butt or forestrap following serial #, or left side of grip frame indicates a factory rework; began ~ 1912, declined and became sporadic in the early 1960s before the decline of date stamps per Roy.

Deviations: Roy Jinks once said that the star wasn't always used. A nickel .32 RP that was built pre-war went back post war and got a new barrel, cylinder and re-finish; it is not marked by the SN, but does have stars on the barrel, cylinder and yoke.

If you informed S&W that you didn't want the star stamp on the butt, the factory would stamp it on the left side grip frame under the grips, which fits with a few guns we've seen with the star on the grip frame.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

"Where is the star stamped on the sideplate located?" (Hondo44, Post #27)

Inside, hidden away from prying eyes----right along with the rest of them. (The frame: On the side of the grip frame. On the barrel: Inside the ejector rod housing. On the cylinder: Under the ejector star. On the yoke: I don't remember for sure, but I'm going to say on the trailing edge.)

This was a Registered Magnum---nickel, 5"-------billed as "original finish" by RIA----back in the olden days. Then the letter arrived---a few days after the gun. It was one of 15 shipped to the Indianapolis P.D. Okay----a 50 some odd year old police gun that's brand new----what's wrong with this picture? The ensuing closer look revealed a frame full of what appeared to be brand new bits and pieces----lending some credibility to my subsequent theory the gun had been refinished, rebuilt, and reeverythingelse----but DAMN---it sure was pretty!! It lived here for maybe 5 years while I hunted down a pair of pre-war Magnas befitting their new home. And then I sold it. I think it eventually found its way to Dave Ballantyne's house.

Ralph Tremaine

Also, as an aside, I don’t believe there are fake rework dates. If I am wrong, i would like to see evidence. I don’t see any reason to fake a rework stamp, then or now.

We must remember that many fine details of this rework marking process will be lost to time and most of the people who applied these stamps are no longer with us. Some things are known regarding this topic and some are not since given what we do know, it would not be an exact science. We should thus refrain from flagrant assumptions IE any date code longer than 4 digits is fake, which is nonsense. Like Friday often said, “just the facts...”

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

I have an I frame, .32 hand ejector with the sn of 46473*. On the inside of the left grip frame is 8.42, which I assume is a rework date. No idea what was done to the revolver, but perhaps a reblue. No other markings, except a B under barrel prior to the sn.

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Kevin in Oregon

I have a Pre Model 27 shipped in 1955 that was refinished by the factory in December of 1971. In addition to the date 12 71, it is stamped R-Bi (for bright blue finish?) in a rectangular box.

Bright blue was standard by '71, so no reason for the stamp to indicate bright blue. The "R-Bi" was not an uncommon stamping:


Photo credit: Rick Bowles


If the gun had the Bright blue as the optional finish originally when it was shipped, it has a large B following the barrel serial #.


Photo credit: newellj


The bright blue became standard about when the gun was produced, so in that case it would not have the large B.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Great thread. I wonder if someone could make it a sticky or distill the information and incorporated it into one of the other stickies.

It would save me from having to do that myself and probably wind up misplacing it anyways.

Ralph, if I ever need any rework done by the factory, would you consider handling it for me?

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