Model 1917 Commercial

n743tc · #1 04-07-2017, 10:15 AM

I collect both S&W and Colt; early military, mostly revolvers.
In 2010 I started looking for a very nice M 1917 to match my Colt M 1917. During the search, I found that the S&W M 1917 commercial had had a limited production, according to the Blue Book, of approximately 991 guns. I’m always up for a good hunt so a target readdress was in order.
Three years later, while searching the net, I found the target on the Georgia & Tennessee border (live in Sebring, FL). The S&W M 1917 commercial was advertised as a 95% at $3,500, no box or paperwork was mentioned. Wait a min the BB, at the time, list the 100% gun at $2,450, I’d better get some advice on this before I plunk down a grand over book.
Nov. 2013, I posted a request for assistance on this site. Hondo44 answered first followed by Wiregrassguy, with some good advice. After much soul searching I passed on the gun.
Last Monday, seven years after the start of the search, I picked up my (new to me) S&W M 1917 serial # S 210529 with the original box. It is not 100 %, closer to 75 or 80%. The box is in very good condition.
Hondo44 suggested that this be a good thread topic. So here goes.
In addition to the gun and box I have posted the inside of the right grip that shows the serial number. Hondo44 stated that if the factory had refinished the gun the inside the left grip would have a refinish date. S 210529 does not have the refinish date.
A Big thanks goes out to both Hondo44 and Wiregrassguy for their input, which saved me over a grand
Added question: If the factory refinishes a shooters gun, is the condition elevated to collector status? If so how far up the chain, given the gun is presented with no damage. As an example if my gun was refinished by the factory would it be elevated to, say 95%. The grips have slight smooth indention, which do not break the finish.
Thanks
Tom

22hipower · #2 04-07-2017, 10:31 AM

Very nice, especially to have the box. As to the refinish question, even if done by S&W the refinish is still a refinish; 0% original finish. I think a general rule of thumb is 50% price cut for a refinish over original and if by S&W somewhat higher value; still, 0% original finish. I have one of the last of those 991 guns; S210775. Mine is definitely refinished and not very well, and not by S&W, and in nickel. Somewhat rare I suppose but not very valuable. Enjoy yours, very nice!

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Skeetr57 · #3 04-07-2017, 10:48 AM

First, the factory probably would not refinish that gun because of its age. Secondly, in my opinion any refinish would decrease its value and collect-ability. As it is, it is a very desirable piece because it is a transition gun, built shortly after WWII before the design was changed to the short action and before model numbers were assigned. Leave it alone because there is nothing you can do to it that will increase its value.

n743tc · #4 04-07-2017, 01:15 PM

Tom & Jeff,
Roger that thanks for the input. I had planed to leave it alone just wanted the info. I collect Morgan $ also and wondered how the gun collectors viewed issues such as this. In the coin world just cleaning a coin drops the value dramatically.
One other question.
I see both of you are members of the S&W Collectors Association. How does one join SWCA?

jsfricks · #5 04-07-2017, 02:21 PM

I believe your 75-80% rating for that one is way too low. I would say 90%+. It certainly doesn't need a refinish. A refinish, whether factory done or aftermarket, does hurt the value compared to an all original and does take it out of the collector status and puts it in the shooter status. Nothing wrong with a shooter but that one is nice as is. Good score!

Muley Gil · #6 04-07-2017, 02:26 PM

Welcome back.

"In addition to the gun and box I have posted the inside of the right grip that shows the serial number. Hondo44 stated that if the factory had refinished the gun the inside the left grip would have a refinish date. S 210529 does not have the refinish date."

It may just be the way it is stated, but a trip back to S&W would result in a stamp on the left side of the grip frame. 8.54 would indicate it went back to the factory in August 1954. There is often a star stamped by the butt serial number as well.

Wiregrassguy · #7 04-07-2017, 03:00 PM

Nice photos, Tom! I tend to agree with Jeff Fricks that, unless there are finish issues we can't see in the pictures, your gun rates higher than 80%. I was skeptical, but i'm not good at estimating. So I'm glad Jeff mentioned this.

Is the serial number written on the bottom of the box?

I'll PM you about S&WCA membership.

Hondo44 · #8 04-07-2017, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n743tc

Last Monday, seven years after the start of the search, I picked up my (new to me) S&W M 1917 serial # S 210529 with the original box. It is not 100 %, closer to 75 or 80%. The box is in very good condition.
Hondo44 suggested that this be a good thread topic. So here goes.
In addition to the gun and box I have posted the inside of the right grip that shows the serial number. Hondo44 stated that if the factory had refinished the gun the inside the left grip would have a refinish date. S 210529 does not have the refinish date.
A Big thanks goes out to both Hondo44 and Wiregrassguy for their input, which saved me over a grand
Added question: If the factory refinishes a shooters gun, is the condition elevated to collector status? If so how far up the chain, given the gun is presented with no damage. As an example if my gun was refinished by the factory would it be elevated to, say 95%. The grips have slight smooth indention, which do not break the finish.
Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom,

That's a winner, a real screamer! Congrats on that find.

Although you may see more in person than I do in the photos, I'd rate it at least 85% or 90%, and maybe higher.

I'm as certain as I can be from the photos that it's not refinished. The Lack of the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp on the right front frame is interesting in that serial range. But doesn't surprise me with S&Ws.

There may be one downside in that the right stock panel is the 'sharp shoulder' style appropriate for the Transitional models, but the left side stock is not; it's the round shoulder style that followed the sharp shoulder.

There's no exact s/n or date for the change. But I would be surprised if they came from S&W mismatched. Since the left side is never numbered, we can't determine if it's been replaced or not unless it fits poorly.

As some one said above, a factory finish will not diminish the value as much as a non factory finish, but will devalue it to approximately the value of a 50 - 75% original finish gun.

Thx for sharing. Shoot and enjoy that one!!

DWalt · #9 04-07-2017, 03:24 PM

I list several commercial 1917s in the S210xxx range which shipped in the 1946-48 period (but two do not have the S prefix). It is surprising there is no MADE IN U.S.A. stamp on the frame.

richcory · #10 04-07-2017, 04:42 PM

I hope you join the SWCA, I'm glad I did.

Great looking 1917 by the way.

Cory

n743tc · #11 04-09-2017, 07:42 PM

Thanks for the info guys.
Guy, the box does not have a serial # but a date (unable to read possible 19x5) is stamped on the inside of the box.
Does anyone know where I can get a left "sharp shoulder" stock.
I have a set of Roper stocks to trade, not sure what they fit.
No photo but there is a "MADE IN U.S.A. stamp is on the frame
1st photo shows holster rub
2nd photo pencil indicates 2 slight scratches.
3rd right screw head appears to have edge damage.
4th pencil indicates indention on stock - finish not broken.
5th photo 2 sets of #'s. What are they please?
Thanks again
Tom

Wiregrassguy · #12 04-09-2017, 08:01 PM

The R - S stamp inside the rectangle indicates that the gun has been refinished at Smith & Wesson in its standard finish which is blue. It was done in June 1975.

Guy

murphydog · #13 04-09-2017, 08:01 PM

There were 991 "postwar Transitional" 1917s in this SN range; many more Commercials were made between the end of WW I and the beginning of WW II.

In your last photo, the stampings indicate a "refinish-standard" (blue) in June 1976.

Hondo44 · #14 04-09-2017, 08:28 PM

Yep, a factory refinish and in June of 1976, the star stamp following the serial # on the butt was no longer in use.

The factory won't refinish a pre model # gun now, but they did in 1976.

In your close up photos of the stocks, I now see that they match and are both round shouldered.

Toyman · #15 04-09-2017, 09:27 PM

This is 210120, no letter prefix, shipped October 1946. Front sight altered and back strap grooved. This one has MADE IN USA stamped on left side of frame.

S&WIowegan · #16 04-09-2017, 10:00 PM

I have a NIB Model of 1950 Military which is the final factory version of the 1917. The factory finish is the S&W classic matte bluing. Your gun has been polished shiney and bright blued. Shoot it and enjoy it.

stu1ritter · #17 04-10-2017, 07:52 AM

This is my post war transitional #210151 which also has modified sights. The rear is windage adjustable. I've heard that several were modified in this manner to use in military non-adjustable sight contests but I have no data.

Stu

policerevolvercollector · #18 04-10-2017, 10:21 PM

Very nice!!