Both of these letters were a surprise, one good and one not so good. The first is for a 44 HE 3rd Model. First the story on this one. I purchased this around late 2015 from some one who had purchased the contents of a storage locker in Fort Worth, TX. The locker had been sealed since 1974 because the owners lived out of state and always mailed in a check for rent until around 2015, when the checks stopped. So the contents were sold at auction. The gun was in an old leather holster wrapped up tightly in a towel. There was paperwork in the locker of the grandfather that had fought in the Indian wars. It came to me with smooth Pearl grips with the typical Roman Numerals carved on the backside which was commonly done when Wolf & Klar made grips for guns they sold. The letter stated it shipped to W&K in Fort Worth, but the surprise came when it said it was blued. There is nothing that ever clued me that it might be a refinish. The proud pins, sharp edges, letters and tight side plate seam all looked good. The extractor star is blued. There's also no stamping on the left side grip frame showing a return date or refinish. But there is a small N on the right side grip frame. I did read somewhere on the forum that this means it was nickel. So a question, did these have an N stamped on the left grip frame or face of cylinder showing it was nickel or a B stamped in the shroud showing it was Blued? Below are some pics. One showing the N on the "right" side grip frame. But if it was blued it probably wouldn't have survived this well wrapped in a leather holster for 40 years.

















My second letter is for a prewar 38/44 that surprisingly, shipped to the police department of Janesville, Wisconsin. With the condition this one is in along with nearly perfect matching grips I would have never believed it was a police gun. Pictures below.

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Get off my lawn!

Generally, a lack of a B in front of the serial number that is stamped in the ejector shroud means that it shipped with a nickel finish.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I would have Roy/Don check the records again on the nickel gun. Looks original to me and yes I have seen the small N on the right side of the butt stock on Nickel guns from this era. There were errors made in the original records.

Charlie

Are the walnut grips numbered to the gun?

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

That's good info. I added a photo of the inside of the shroud.

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Get off my lawn!

Thanks Charlie, I did send a PM to Don asking him when he had the spare time to double check the info on this one. Maybe it's as you stated, someone entered the wrong finish in the books in 1937.

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Get off my lawn!

Group, Be aware that the factory shipping records for Model 1926s sent to Wolf & Klar have numerous errors, especially if a gun was part of a large batch shipment. Apparently the shipping clerks charged with recording data as to gun configurations in the large shipments to W&K adopted a very laid back attitude as to what they were putting the records. There are examples were a large shipment is recorded as being all identically configured guns, when in fact there was a mixture of nickel, blue, engraved, 5 in, 6 in, etc. guns in the shipment. If you have a gun that does not match the shipping record info., and it has all the correct configurations and stamps for a different appearance, it most likely is an original S&W in the observed configurations. Roy has to letter the gun as the records indicate, of course, however he has realized the problem and in my case I always have him examine the gun personally, before I request a letter if possible, if I suspect it may be misidentified in the records, the letter can then reflect his personal opinion on the gun vs. the records, if there turns out to be a conflict, plus it gives him a chance to search for the invoice which will show any special treatments for a gun that were not shown in the shipping info. You can also do this, "Post Letter" should the letter not match your gun. Bottomline: Go by the stamps you see on a gun, not the letter, if in doubt. Ed.

So could there possibly be other paperwork for the W&K that I should request? I understand that there's no charge if nothing is found.

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Get off my lawn!

Jeff
I'll go back and check the records.
Don

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Don Mundell

I appreciate that Don.

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Get off my lawn!

Really like that 5” heavy duty, plus being a police gun. Larry

Your nickle vs. blue letter simply reflects the company records------and the fact the company records aren't always correct----nor are they complete.

A case on point: I have an 8" .32 caliber 1st Model Single Shot---a fairly rare gun. Were you to examine it, you would find it to be entirely authentic. It letters as a 10" .22.

Another case on point: I have a 6" 2nd Model Single Shot. That's a fairly rare barrel length---be nice to have it authenticated----never mind it's an all numbers matching item no one would find fault with. There is no mention of the barrel length in the factory records---and accordingly no mention of it in the letter.

Want another one? I have a New Model #3 Target chambered in "38 WINCHESTER CTG" (as stamped on the numbers matching barrel). Now that is quite impossible, because ALL these guns were chambered ONLY in 32-44 S&W or 38-44 S&W----says so in ALL the books. Yet, here it is. Once again, it would be kind'a nice to have it documented. No such luck----there is no record of the caliber---only an indication it was a special order for a single item. Well, that's got to make you feel a little better, right? Yeah----but.

The good news is I have a great foundation for a collection of letters I'd rather not have---and I have every expectation it will grow. That's because the folks that made/kept these records were interested in making these guns, getting them out the door, and getting paid for them-------PERIOD. If they saw us getting our knickers in a knot over such things, they'd die all over again----die laughing this time.

Now---as far as that police gun goes, have a GOOD hard look at it. Here's what I saw on mine (a nickel 5" Registered Magnum with Humpback hammer shipped to the Indianapolis P.D.)----which CLEARLY had spent its entire life in a sock drawer. I saw a star on the side of the grip frame---another on the cylinder (under the ejector)---another on the inside of the yoke---another on the inside of the ejector rod shroud----another on the inside of the sideplate. That's every place it's got a place---right? There was number stamped on the grip frame too---five digits---no spaces, dots, dashes, or slashes. It could have been a date---could have been one of two different dates. And don't forget the innards---mine were brand spanking new!! So-------what's with all that---completely rebuilt/refinished you reckon? I reckon.

Ralph Tremaine

Well, I'm definitely not getting my "knickers in a knot", but just had a question on the letter. And the 38/44, no stars, no diamonds, no stamps, no rebuild, and no doubt it's all original. But it does have about 2-3% wear, one or two small marks in the blue on the cylinder, etc., showing it was used a little. Since it was the only gun in the order, maybe it was for the police chief or someone in the office and was rarely carried. It definitely wasn't an officers everyday carry. Hey, maybe the mayor saw one like it and wanted one, but at a discount, and just paid the city back. If these guns could talk! I've seen it mentioned that the letters are done with a stencil, or a pre typed letter or along those lines? If that's the case then I figured it may have possibly been left as blue. I had a round butt and a square butt M&P lettered and both letters were identically typed except for serials, place where shipped and the way the gun was setup. Both letters state that the guns were shipped with square butt Walnut grips. But one is a round butt. I'm sure that it should have said round butt Walnut grips. I'm not worried about having it corrected because it's obvious it's a round butt and the grip numbers do match. Mistakes happen, in 1937 and 2017, we're human. It's not worth bugging Neil or Don about.

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Get off my lawn!

Mr. Ed notes Roy can/will examine a questionable gun (one which is at odds with the factory records) and subsequently provide a letter stating his opinion. (See Post #7.) It is my belief that was certainly the case---once upon a time.

With that belief firmly entrenched in my mind, I set forth to right the "wrong" done by the letter stating my 8" .32 caliber Single Shot was a 10" .22.

Procedure: Get the gun into Roy's hands---in front of his eyes. That was a piece of cake---David Carroll hand carried the gun to SWCA Boise, and handed it to Roy.

Outcome: It was reported Roy found the gun to be entirely authentic. It was also reported Roy was unable to provide a letter stating his opinion due to company policy forbidding anything in writing which was contrary to company records.

Commentary: None---only because it might possibly be against the rules and regulations we've all agreed to abide by here---in which case the Big Gorilla might well beat me severely about the head and ears with a large heavy object---as might possibly be appropriate under the circumstances.

Bottom Line: It---any and all aspects of this unfortunate situation, is what it is----and forever more shall be---until it isn't.

For those who might chastise me for not doing my due diligence before buying this gun in the first place, know that I gave it a shot as best I could under the circumstances. That went like this: I checked to see if the number was listed in N&J-----not that that's the be all and end all, but I was seeking a warm, fuzzy feeling, not an iron clad guarantee. It was there. It wasn't in the .32 section, but in the .22 section (just as subsequently confirmed by the letter). No problem---I had an answer for that. (I'm sure you've noticed we can come up with an answer for most anything around here.) The answer: It was .22 shipped with an accessory .32 barrel---and the .22 barrel was long gone. (See how easy that was!) Alas, that wasn't in the records either.

Ralph Tremaine

Oh my. Now I'm more anxious than ever to get back the letter I requested just earlier this week on my 44 HE 3rd Model!



S/N on mine is 29585, also in nickel with the "N" on the grip frame. Mine is obviously a re-nickel. My grips look identical to yours! Thanks for posting all this info!