Does pawn shop after market engraving on a Wolf & Klar Model of 1926 .44 detract from the value?

Probably need more details. Wolf & Klar where also known to do a rough style engraving. So are you sure some Pawn shop did it?

Here's some info.

Wolf and Klar engraving

Here's an example from that thread.

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Watch & Pray

It depends. If it was done by someone other than Wolf & Klar, then it will most likely decrease the value. If it was done by Wolf & Klar, then it has more appeal to some collectors and less to appeal to others. While I personally think it is ugly, I bought the revolver pictured in the post above because I knew that it would likely trace back to Wolf & Klar. I was able to establish that fact with a letter. My suspicion that it was owned by James Carroll Bates, a Captain of the Texas Rangers, Chief of Police of San Angelo, and eventually sent to federal prision for violating prohibition laws, remains only an educated guess.

I'm no expert but I'll give you my opinion. If the gun letters as shipping to Wolf & Klar and the "engraving" is in the style of Wolf & Klar then there would be no detraction from value for me. If with carved pearl stocks with the steer with ruby eye, so much the better. The "engraving" on the W&K guns I've seen doesn't really qualify as engraving but the history associated with W&K has a value all its own. The only W&K lettered gun I own does not have their pawn shop engraving or their stocks and is as shipped from the factory. If the pawn shop style engraving is thought to be other than W&K the value would go down, at least for me. If you've got one folks here would love to see pictures.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I was considering a purchase of a 4" nickled one. The ruby eyes are missing from the steer head. Someone wanted it $300+ more than I did. It was refinished as well.

Thanks for the responses.

I have other W&K .44 3rd Models. I just thought the scratch marks were neat.

We all know what is often said about opinions...I find those "pawn shop" guns to be disfigured, even the W&K models show very little true talent with engraving tools, someone should have been horsewhipped for practicing on something as nice as a 3rd Model H.E. I know some very indulging parents that are proud as punch about something their child has "created" when in fact all one can do is keep a straight face and say "bless his heart."

I think Wolf and Klar engraving as crude as it is can and does enhance the value somewhat of firearms today because of its well documented history associated with famous Lawmen and Outlaws during the time but I'm also a little biased. Bought this little Colt Vest Pocket at a local sale about two years ago. Definitely got the Wolf and Klar look about it. I'm still working on trying to tie it into W&K and finding out who KP is. So far no luck on either.

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Katy Perry????? Kyle Petty?????

Not sure that the first initial is a K but who knows.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Used to see these guns years ago in Ft. Worth.
Didn’t know about W&K or much about engraved Guns.
Back then was mostly interested in Colt SA’s.
Thought the ‘scratched’ Smiths with Bullhead grips were just too different for me!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

This Wolf and Klar shipped July 31,1931 has the original finish and none of the ugly electro pencil so call engraving and I'm pleased that it doesn't.

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Whoa, a 4 inch nickel. Nice, don't see those very often. Do the stocks letter to the gun? Here's my four inch, almost in the same shipment as yours. Went to W&K on July 15, 1931 (sn 38,302). I'd like one of the scratched up ones too but don't mind that this one is as it left the factory.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

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Thanks Jeff and your right you don't see many 4 inchers.
The stocks are a set of period correct genuine Ivories no matching numbers. When I got the revolver it had a set of later
magnas from the mid 50s. When I take it to the range I use a set of pre-war elk stocks that I got from Ken Driskill the ivories are way to valuable to risk on a range session.

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Really doubt it's either of those two. More likely just a regular person seeking to fancy it up a little. I've always suspected it was a lady's gun/ initials due to the ivy type scroll on the grips. Today, who knows but back then a man more than likely wouldn't do or carry something like that.

It's a K with a foot on the bottom just like the P has.

From one of the Fort Worth historical websites:

I don't know the complete history of Wolf and Klar, but I can provide some basic information. The business had origins in Dallas at the Klar and Winterman store located in Deep Ellum in the late 1890s. Jacob Winterman, the Winterman partner was the older brother of several sisters, and Herman Klar was married to one of those sisters. In the early 1900s, Lena Winterman married Herman Klar's younger brother, Jacob. A third Winterman sister (Fanny) married a fellow named Alex Wolf. A few years later, fourth Winterman sister (Sophia, my grandmother) married a fellow named Herman Miller. I guess the Dallas business was not big enough to provide this growing family with jobs and income because in the early 1900s Jacob Klar/Lena Klar, Fanny Wolf/Alex Wolf, and Sophia Miller/Herman Miller relocated to Fort Worth and opened a branch of the Dallas store. Sometime afterwards the name of the FW store was changed to Wolf and Klar. Wolf and Klar operated very much like the Dallas store, a high end pawn shop with a large sporting goods and gun department. The Fort Worth business prospered during the boom years of WW1 and the 1920s. Wolf and Klar also operated stores at locations in the oil boom towns of Texas and Oklahoma during the 1920s and 30s. By the mid 1930s, Wolf and Klar also owned other credit jewelry/pawn operations in downtown Fort Worth. In 1937, Jacob Klar died of a heart attack. One week later Herman Miller was killed in a car accident in Arizona. A bit of a family struggle for control of the business ensued. As a result, a decision was made to break up the businesses. The Klar and Miller interests took control of various smaller stores in downtown Fort Worth (NC Hall, Peacock's) and maintained partial ownership interest in stores in Oklahoma and Lousiana. The Wolf/Lang family took sole control of the Wolf and Klar stores and also operated a considerable wholesale operation. Wolf and Klar operated the old store on lower Main Street until the 1960s. I think the sporting good/gun operation continued until the end. Dick Lang, a Wolf son in law, operated a Wolf and Klar wholesale business into the 1980s. The Wolf, Klar, and Miller families continued to be a close knit extended family (well almost, two second generation brothers in law refused to speak to each other after the split) in spite of the disagreement that brought an end to the partnership. It came as a big surprise to me to learn that Wolf and Klar had such a "celebrity" clientele for some of its firearms. You would think that the Machine Gun Kelly saga would be part of family lore. It appears that Jacob Klar even testified at some court proceeding that he sold the original machine gun to Kelly's wife back in the 1933. There is extensive documentation about Wolf and Klar's gun business to be found with a simple Google search. Who knew? That is part of what is so cool about this Fort Worth Memories group. I am learning family "secrets" just by participating as a member.

I believe the Main Street W&K store operated until the late 1960s. It was torn down when the Fort Worth convention center was built.

Just received my NRA Rifleman magazine and as usual went right to the back page and Lo and Behold, there is an article on the 3rd Model H.E. with mention to Wolf and Klar, also a short note by Dave Carroll concerning their current collectible status...dang I knew I should have picked up one of those HPD burners a long time ago.

I have one wriggle cut engraved 3rd model, shipped to W&K wearing pearls. The engraving is cut through the factory nickel. It is/was one of my 'grail' guns. It has been posted here to the admiration of some and the scorn of some. I can believe the cowboy or lawman who owned it was very proud--as am I. JMHO



And, here wearing what appears to be the Brill style holster sold by Wolf & Klar.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Thanks for posting the history, DWalt. I had heard of Wolf & Klar guns for years, but never got around to researching the company.

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Oh well, what the hell.

"Do the stocks letter to the gun?" That's an excellent question! I know this because I asked Jinks a very similar question about some medallion ivories on an N frame I recently acquired--never mind the medallions were I frame size.

Be that as it may, the stocks won't letter to the gun. That according to Jinks, who wrote "Smith & Wesson did not offer ivory grips for their "N" frame revolvers. The ivory grips were generally added by the distributor or dealer to fill a special order."

Ralph Tremaine