kbm6893
SWCA Member
Can somebody explain the difference and maybe show some pics showing the difference?
Difference Between Long Action and Short Action
- Thread starter kbm6893
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StrawHat
SWCA Member
The long action is what it says, a long hammer travel from full cock to primer. The short action, introduced in 1950, reduces the distance the hammer travels from full cock to primer. The shorter distance results in a shorter time period for you to jerk the sights off target. I believe the short action was pioneered by independent gunsmiths who catered to the target shooters. S&W got wind of it and built it into the design.
There are a couple tells to indicate the short or long action at a glance. Easiest is the shape of the hammer. Long actions have the hammer in the picture on the left. The photograph on the right is a short action.
Kevin
There are a couple tells to indicate the short or long action at a glance. Easiest is the shape of the hammer. Long actions have the hammer in the picture on the left. The photograph on the right is a short action.
Kevin
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Alk8944
US Veteran
Basically just what was said above. The difference was achieved by a slight change in the position of the hammer stud.
The hammers are not identical where your thumb rides but if you look at the distance of the firing pin to the frame the distance is a pretty substantial.
Shooting Bullseye I can see a big difference when shooting timed fire.
Shooting Bullseye I can see a big difference when shooting timed fire.
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I cannot speak for the N frames, but on the K frame, the "High Speed" hammer (S&W's name for the short action hammer) was introduced on the M&P in early 1948. The first production example was serialized at S990184 and that gun shipped on April 7, 1948. Presumably, it was assembled sometime in March.
There was a prototype assembled on October 21, 1947, serial number S924878. Hellstrom's notes say it was "not swaged at the spur." The implication of his full note is that configuring the M&P in that way was for it to be consistent with the K target guns. I believe the K-38 was the first of the K frames intended to get the High Speed hammer, although the K-22 (flat faced hammer) was produced for a while before the K-38 hit the assembly line. However, it was several months later that production started on the M&Ps with the new type of hammer.
Use of the short action on the M&P roughly corresponds to the end of the S prefix serial numbers. Nearly all C prefix .38 M&Ps had the short action, although I have identified one at serial number C58672 with the older long action. It shipped on April 20, 1949.
Also there were some .32 M&Ps with the long action that shipped at about the time the change was made. 910 of them were shipped to a hardware store in New York on April 21, 1948. I own one of them (picture below).
There were also .32 M&Ps with the short action. All of them that I have located shipped in 1949, but I'm sure some of them went out the door later.
The hammers are not identical where your thumb rides but if you look at the distance of the firing pin to the frame the distance is a pretty substantial.
Shooting Bullseye I can see a big difference when shooting timed fire.
It is certainly noticeable when the hammer is cocked. The one I have, an M&P made in 1946, feels substantially smoother to me than a later gun. Extremely smooth.
AND---------there's short action, and then there's shorter yet (by 24% +/-). That came to pass with the SAO (Single Action Only) K-38.
As an aside, and speculation on my part simply because I don't know for sure and certain one way or the other, I believe impetus for S&W's (first) short action came from the King Gun Sight Co. (who offered short action conversions starting in the mid 1930's).
Ralph Tremaine
As an aside, and speculation on my part simply because I don't know for sure and certain one way or the other, I believe impetus for S&W's (first) short action came from the King Gun Sight Co. (who offered short action conversions starting in the mid 1930's).
Ralph Tremaine
The hammers are not identical where your thumb rides but if you look at the distance of the firing pin to the frame the distance is a pretty substantial.
Shooting Bullseye I can see a big difference when shooting timed fire.
It is certainly noticeable when the hammer is cocked. The one I have, an M&P made in 1946, feels substantially smoother to me than a later gun. Extremely smooth.
Gun on the left is a 1946 38/44 OD with King short action conversion.
By 1950 Short action was factory standard on the 38/44 OD
No more need for Kings version, which if I recall was done differently internally than the factory.
I don't know how the King version was done, except that they didn't change the position of the hammer stud. Your S&W could be converted for $10, your Colt (double or single action) was $8.50.
Ralph Tremaine
StrawHat
SWCA Member
Interesting , as I'm generally more accurate with my long action guns.
No argument here! I like the long action 45s.
Kevin
Targets Guy
US Veteran
Casual glance can be deceiving
These guns were both Lettered.
The blue background pics are a K22 Outdoorsman's (1931) also known as K22 1st Model. The Long Action was defined as .270" wide checkered flat face hammer, and .270" wide serrated trigger. s/n 637749. The hammer was referred to in the LOA as a Hump Back Hammer.
The other gun is a 1947 K22 Masterpiece with "High Speed Action" (aka: Short Action), defined as .375 wide checkered hammer, and .265" wide serrated trigger. s/n K905.
There is a difference, even though a casual glance at the "cocked" pics doesn't really reveal it as much as some of the pics posted by others.
Just my opinion, but widths and hammer curvature sure changed over the pre-war and post war times.
These guns were both Lettered.
The blue background pics are a K22 Outdoorsman's (1931) also known as K22 1st Model. The Long Action was defined as .270" wide checkered flat face hammer, and .270" wide serrated trigger. s/n 637749. The hammer was referred to in the LOA as a Hump Back Hammer.
The other gun is a 1947 K22 Masterpiece with "High Speed Action" (aka: Short Action), defined as .375 wide checkered hammer, and .265" wide serrated trigger. s/n K905.
There is a difference, even though a casual glance at the "cocked" pics doesn't really reveal it as much as some of the pics posted by others.
Just my opinion, but widths and hammer curvature sure changed over the pre-war and post war times.
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StrawHat
SWCA Member
It is not the width of the thumb pad on the hammer that defines the type of action (factory) as the location of the thumb spur. Coming out from the top of the hammer, defines the long action. Starting about 1/2 way down denotes a short action. Here are two photos of my 1950 Army. The hammer shape clearly denotes the short action and in the close up you can see the pad is no wider than the main body of the hammer.
Kevin
Kevin
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