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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 08-22-2021, 12:28 PM
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What was original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver What was original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver What was original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver What was original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver What was original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver  
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Is there any info on what was the original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver.

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Old 08-22-2021, 12:35 PM
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Rogue cops?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I believe it was for hunting.
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:39 PM
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Rogue cops?
.
Dirty and hairy ?
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:42 PM
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Hunters as I recall from the time. There's really no other practical use for it.

Here's a .41 ad...

What was original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver-41magnum-jpg
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:51 PM
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Anybody who would buy one.
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Old 08-22-2021, 12:54 PM
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That would certainly include me.
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Old 08-22-2021, 01:45 PM
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There was a great piece of work authored by Bill Cross and Roy Jinks in 2919 named The Smith & Wesson 44 Magnum and the small section on the early development is quite interesting. I can try to condense the section in chronological order.

Elmer Keith received his first 357 Magnum in 1933. He stated that everyone who saw the gun stated it should have been made in 44 caliber. For many years, the factory gave the issue little attention and in 1946 author and shooter John Lachuk inquired about the company's plans for the 44 Magnum. The factory replied that they were still not interested in pursuing.

Finally in the early 1950s at the repeated requests of Keith, Lachuk and ammunition manufacturers that resulted in the introduction of the 44 Mag in 1955. I can only assume that the gun was of interest for target shooting first and as a hunting caliber second.
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Old 08-22-2021, 02:12 PM
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It was, at it’s conception, the answer to the “what is the best choice for bear protection” question that still plagues us to this day.
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Old 08-22-2021, 02:24 PM
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It's the American way. If big is good, bigger is better.
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Old 08-22-2021, 02:51 PM
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It was, at it’s conception, the answer to the “what is the best choice for bear protection” question that still plagues us to this day.
S&W, having great foresight, obviously knew how many bear gun threads would appear on this forum one day.
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Old 08-22-2021, 03:08 PM
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The same as the market for the then hard to find 44 special.
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Old 08-22-2021, 03:14 PM
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Well, I’m sure it was to sell more revolvers. Revolvers were king back then.
In most our opinion, and most here, they still are. 😎
The 44 magnum was another home run for them. They seem to have accomplished that in spades.
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Old 08-22-2021, 03:15 PM
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An old friend owned a local sporting goods store for many years. One day while I was there, a customer came in and stated he was looking for a "Bear Gun" to carry while on a upcoming fishing trip in Alaska. My friend had a M29, a Ruger Super Blackhawk, and several other big magnums. My friend reached in the display case, and pulled out a 4" S&W Kit Gun in 22LR. Customer just stood there, puzzled look on his face, until my friend said: "This is what you need right here, won't make such a mess when you put it to your temple. No handgun is a bear gun".

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Old 08-22-2021, 03:55 PM
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I would say hunting. "World's most powerful handgun", right?
Reading my autographed copy of "Keith, An Autobiography". Elmer says he talked S&W and Remington into the making of the 1st .44 Magnum.
Elmer got a call from Harold Austin, S&W advertising manager. Harold said, "the 1st .44 Magnum ever produced, a tool-room job is on it's way to you now".
The 1st one had a 6 1/2" barrel and arrived in Feb, 1954.
Elmer talks about hitting a rock a few times at 500 yds and then killing a mule deer at 600 yds.
On a side note, I remember my dad talking about meeting Elmer Keith. I think the 1st time was at a SHOT Show.
My dad says Elmer said, "my name is Keith and I would like to buy you a drink". My dad said, "bourbon and branch".
My dad was a gun store owner and gun writer. Later he brought Elmer to Dallas for a seminar and a shooting session. Of course they shot .44 Magnums. Because he was Elmer Keith, the Winchester gun range in Dallas let us shoot on the 300 yd rifle range.
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Old 08-22-2021, 03:59 PM
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Elmer Keith was the person who kept pushing for a 44 Magnum. His primary interest was having a sidearm that would be useful for protection on his hunting and pack trips in the wilderness and could also be used to take a variety of game. So, I believe S&W developed the 44 Magnum for the handgun hunter and outdoorsman who spent time in the wilderness.

Of course, the movie, "Dirty Harry", was the reason everyone, outdoorsman or not, wanted the "World's Most Powerful Handgun".

Bill
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Old 08-22-2021, 04:25 PM
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. . . Reading my autographed copy of "Keith, An Autobiography". Elmer says he talked S&W and Remington into the making of the 1st .44 Magnum.
Elmer got a call from Harold Austin, S&W advertising manager. Harold said, "the 1st .44 Magnum ever produced, a tool-room job is on it's way to you now".
The 1st one had a 6 1/2" barrel and arrived in Feb, 1954 . . .
It is well known that Elmer did not get everything correct in his autobiography or his life. I would like to know the serial number of that gun since Roy's and Bill's account is different.

Referencing the book that I mentioned above, the prototypes were were identified as 44 Special Heavy Barrel revolvers. An important one was a 44 Special Target Heavy Barrel, # S121839, 4", Bright, chambered in 44 Magnum. It was shipped to Remington Arms on Sept. 20, 1955 to complete the development of the 44 Magnum cartridge.

The very first production 44 Magnum was # S130927 and went to Walter Sanborn, S&W Sales Department in 1955. The second, # S130806 went to R.H. Coleman of Remington Arms Company. Interesting to note that neither Bill nor Roy mentioned that Elmer Keith received the first 44 Magnum??
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Old 08-22-2021, 04:46 PM
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Gary: Note the difference in the quoted material and what you post. Mr. Keith got his in Feb. 1954, and it was "a tool room job". The others are "production" and showed up in 1955. Those are very real differences and would completely explain the inconsistency.
I'll bet that a person with the right pull, even today, could get a "a tool room job" that does not otherwise exist. There may be darned few of those persons, maybe only the company president and a couple others ... but that does not mean no one.
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Old 08-22-2021, 04:56 PM
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Because he was Elmer Keith, the Winchester gun range in Dallas let us shoot on the 300 yd rifle range.
That is excellent! I taught myself to shoot handguns on that range. I still shoot there; the guy who owns it (or leases it from the City, I am uncertain) is a friend of mine.

In the Summer 2021 edition of the SWCA Journal John Taffin has an excellent article on Elmer Keith and his various .44 caliber handguns.
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Old 08-22-2021, 06:53 PM
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It was developed to take handgun hunting of large game out of the stunt category.

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Old 08-22-2021, 10:42 PM
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Is there any info on what was the original intended market of the .44 Magnum revolver.

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Why, to blow heads clean off. What else, punk? LOL!

Call me a wuss, but that's too much handgun for me to actually enjoy shooting. My old .41 magnum Blackhawk was even hard on my knuckles. A .357 is about tops as far as magnums go for me.

I keep my 44 special and 45 colts loaded down to pleasurable levels too. Of course I swung a hammer for years on end, and old arther has settled in my joints as well.
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Old 08-22-2021, 11:47 PM
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Based on my readings back in the 1950's I think it was mostly Keith and his followers who loaded some very hot 44 Specials who were pushing for this. Keith noted in some of his articles and letters that he wanted a hotter 44 than the factory Special for police use. If I recall correctly the new 44 magnum exceeded what he was actually looking for but he sure fell in love with it fast.
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Old 08-22-2021, 11:48 PM
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It was marketed to the macho cops I rode with early in my LEO career and it had to be the 61/2' version, nickel if you could find it. One of the people I worked with was 5'4'' and he looked somewhat strange with the holstered weapon that appeared to only be about 6" from dragging on the ground. I was perfectly happy with my model 19. oh, and they couldn't hit squat with magnum loads. I love to see the look on their faces when we would go to a small outdoor range to shoot and I would just happen to have a box of Remington 44 magnum in my war bag and I would say something to the effect, "here shoot these"and they would get this pasty pale look on their faces. They could rarely fire off more than 6 rounds before their hands would start throbbing and the session was over.

Fast forward a couple of decades and attitudes changed and self loaders became the norm. It really was the old west in those early days and I really, really miss them.
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Old 08-23-2021, 01:26 AM
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I remember reading long ago that they decided to go with a 44 Cal and not a 45 Cal as the 44 was more accurate in competition back then.
For hunting and protection on land and the 44 was popular for Scuba divers on Bangsticks for protection.
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Old 08-23-2021, 09:32 AM
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Elmer Merrifield Keith and like minded outdoorsmen who hunted or dispatched wounded big game with a handgun .
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Old 08-23-2021, 09:39 AM
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I remember reading long ago that they decided to go with a 44 Cal and not a 45 Cal as the 44 was more accurate in competition back then.
For hunting and protection on land and the 44 was popular for Scuba divers on Bangsticks for protection.
The 44 Special had more steel around the cylinder than the 45 Colt ... the cylinder locking notches are over the cylinders, this is the weak spot ... He had a 45 Colt cylinder , or two , come apart with his Heavy 45 Colt loads , see his book "Sixguns" , to get more steel in this area , he gave up the 45Colt/heavy loads and started working with the 44 Special .
These had just enough extra metal to allow the heavy loaded 44 Special to hold together and lead to the 44 Magnum .

If the 45 Colt would have had a larger cylinder ... Dirty Harry might have carried a 45 Magnum !
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Old 08-23-2021, 09:50 AM
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There was a great piece of work authored by Bill Cross and Roy Jinks in 2919 named The Smith & Wesson 44 Magnum and the small section on the early development is quite interesting. I can try to condense the section in chronological order.

Elmer Keith received his first 357 Magnum in 1933. He stated that everyone who saw the gun stated it should have been made in 44 caliber. For many years, the factory gave the issue little attention and in 1946 author and shooter John Lachuk inquired about the company's plans for the 44 Magnum. The factory replied that they were still not interested in pursuing.

Finally in the early 1950s at the repeated requests of Keith, Lachuk and ammunition manufacturers that resulted in the introduction of the 44 Mag in 1955. I can only assume that the gun was of interest for target shooting first and as a hunting caliber second.
That's some trick!! Coming out with a book 800 years in the future.

Just messing with you.
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:10 AM
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To the OP.............Cus dere's sometimes when a 357 just ain't enough.
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:27 AM
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Thanks for the above
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Old 08-23-2021, 11:51 AM
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Elmer Keith received a 44 Magnum with serial number S147220. It was shipped to him on January 27, 1956. It was the fourth 44 Magnum shipped by S&W. The first five regular production 44 Magnums made by S&W have the 44 Magnum roll marked on the right side of the barrel using letters and numbers that are smaller than what was used by the end of January 1956. The font size is the same as that used to roll mark the caliber on the 1950 44 Target revolvers. I verified this on EMK's 44 Magnum when I saw it at Cabela's in Boise in 2012.

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Old 08-23-2021, 11:59 AM
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as an interesting side note.....Bill Ruger.....caught wind of the S&W 44 mag project....and if I recall correctly....had the Ruger Blackhawk 44mag out in the market before the S&W M29
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Old 08-23-2021, 12:17 PM
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It was, at it’s conception, the answer to the “what is the best choice for bear protection” question that still plagues us to this day.
Yeah, but what kind of bear?

: )
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Old 08-23-2021, 01:24 PM
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Yeah, but what kind of bear?: )
Here in Georgia we only have black bears, this little fellow weighed 673#.
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Old 08-23-2021, 01:44 PM
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In my case it was to accelerate arthritis in my right hand and wrist. In recent years I switched to a 5 1/2 Redhawk and the extra weight moderates the recoil.
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Old 08-23-2021, 02:30 PM
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I can't believe nobody's nailed this! Some have come close----sort of close, anyway; but that's where the "Close, but no cigar!" phrase came from.

The intended market for the .44 Magnum is the populous of the "Mine's bigger than yours" crowd----no matter what of mine happens to be the topic of discussion. And any time any of those felt to even have come close to having been outdone, they went right out and got another one----thus assuring a constant flow of repeat business--------and it most certainly seems to be working!!

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Old 08-23-2021, 02:53 PM
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Hunters as I recall from the time. There's really no other practical use for it.
You obviously don't live in Chicago.
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Old 08-23-2021, 03:21 PM
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Here in Georgia we only have black bears, this little fellow weighed 673#.
Too bad he's dead. What a waste of a good pedicure. Looks like he had his toenails sharpened recently.
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Old 08-23-2021, 03:38 PM
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Because it's better to have it and not need it the to need it and not have it.
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Old 08-23-2021, 04:59 PM
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S&W629...The Ruger Blackhawk in 44 Magnum first shipped in quantity at the end of November 1956. By this time, S&W had shipped nearly 3000 44 Magnums, beginning in January of that year. In 1956, Ruger shipped approximately 790 Blackhawks chambered in 44 Magnum caliber.

Bill

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Old 08-23-2021, 05:04 PM
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I can't believe nobody's nailed this! Some have come close----sort of close, anyway; but that's where the "Close, but no cigar!" phrase came from.

The intended market for the .44 Magnum is the populous of the "Mine's bigger than yours" crowd----no matter what of mine happens to be the topic of discussion. And any time any of those felt to even have come close to having been outdone, they went right out and got another one----thus assuring a constant flow of repeat business--------and it most certainly seems to be working!!

Ralph Tremaine
That is called "oneupsmanship" and usually occurs after an influx of testosterone!
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Old 08-23-2021, 05:25 PM
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Despite my enjoyment of the article I mentioned above I have to admit I am in the camp of there is no practical use for the .44 Magnum EXCEPT for big game hunting. Even without arthritis, which I now have some of, and I used to consider myself recoil impervious because recoil is my friend kind of thing, more than a couple of rounds of .44 Magnum is just not fun.

Dirty Harry used .44 Specials; he says so in a later movie.

I love to tell the story of my first Texas CHL Instructor course wherein we had to fire pistols and revolvers for scores of I think 175 or 195 out of 250 for each gun to qualify. The young LEO next to me pulled out a 4" barreled revolver for the wheel gun portion of the test and then a box of 50 rounds of .44 Magnum. I was aghast. He scoffed when I told him was was going to happen after 50 rounds. After the test, and he did qualify, and after medicating and bandaging his bruised and blistered palms and fingers, he looked at me in a sad sort of way, acknowledged that I was correct, and admitted that he would never do that again.

I've shot the caliber; it's not fun and I don't understand the fascination with it but that's where YMMV always comes in.
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Old 08-23-2021, 05:41 PM
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RCT has a good piece of this with the “mines bigger than yours “. I think there is more:
The cold war started in the late 40s and sorta ended about ‘91; but the United States of America was on a roll in the early to mid 50s during the development of the 44 magnum.

Ike was in office; we were out of Korea. The economy was good. The overhead valve V8 had come out for 1955 in the Chevy and Pontiac. (And made a splash far greater than the overhead valve V8 by Ford in 1954.)
Wages were good as I recall it, since this was before the recession of 1958.

There were a lot of fun-savvy World War II personnel who were in their 30s and 40s and could afford good gear. The Colt single action was coming back. TV was literally roaring with revolvers (albeit single actions!) left right and center of a dozen real or imagined western towns. Hunting was a fabulous pastime for millions of Americans. Firearms were commonplace and daily were carried up and down Main Street USA by youngsters and adults, going hunting after school, or on some other honest mission, with no eyebrows raised.

Combined with the demographic realities of that era, the movement toward the 44 magnum only makes sense. It is my supposition that, while Remington may have done some marketing studies, somebody in Ilion, NY, thought it was just a good idea (insert all the stories about Keith, Lachuk, The 44 Associates…) And ditto “somebody” at Smith and Wesson and Ruger. So, we had by 1956 two major companies pouring out 44 magnum revolvers.
Perfect storm?

Yes, for many, a perfect revolver - for hunting, display, plinking, “mine is bigger than yours…” bragging - in its countless iterations to date.

P.S. I have always found the extreme recoil indictment against the 44 magnum to be almost ludicrous. In my family, if you were 5- 9, 160 pounds, with customary hand and arm strength, it was always a piece of cake, from teenage years to the present.YMMV

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Old 08-23-2021, 07:19 PM
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When Elmer Keith was wildcating various rounds for power his group pretty much settled on hot loading the .44 spl. His group named themselves the 44 Associates.They were looking for a round that could kill medium to large game at a distance when chance opportunity presented itself.A long gun wasn’t always readily available to take the shot. But their sidearm was always a draw away. This is what Elmer wanted Smith &Wesson to make a beefed up Extra heat treated N Frame to handle the load.Remington lengthened it to become the magnum.Elmer carried a four inch 29 everyday and killed a lot of game with it while doing chores during the day.So this was Elmer ‘s idea from the start to hunt nothing more nothing less.Those who think it was to out do the competition never made an effort to learn about the history and development of .44 Remington magnum. Smith was just asked to make the gun that would shoot it.
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Old 08-23-2021, 08:38 PM
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Despite my enjoyment of the article I mentioned above I have to admit I am in the camp of there is no practical use for the .44 Magnum EXCEPT for big game hunting. Even without arthritis, which I now have some of, and I used to consider myself recoil impervious because recoil is my friend kind of thing, more than a couple of rounds of .44 Magnum is just not fun.

Dirty Harry used .44 Specials; he says so in a later movie.

I love to tell the story of my first Texas CHL Instructor course wherein we had to fire pistols and revolvers for scores of I think 175 or 195 out of 250 for each gun to qualify. The young LEO next to me pulled out a 4" barreled revolver for the wheel gun portion of the test and then a box of 50 rounds of .44 Magnum. I was aghast. He scoffed when I told him was was going to happen after 50 rounds. After the test, and he did qualify, and after medicating and bandaging his bruised and blistered palms and fingers, he looked at me in a sad sort of way, acknowledged that I was correct, and admitted that he would never do that again.

I've shot the caliber; it's not fun and I don't understand the fascination with it but that's where YMMV always comes in.
That's REAL strange.....I take my .44 Rugers and Smiths to my range and burn through a 100 or more rounds with NO PROBLEMS( 250 gr cast swc pushed by 20 grs of #2400).......It's called FUN!.......Guess those guys would run hide under the bed if ask to shoot a 460 or 500........AND I shoot all mine with the factory grips.
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Old 08-23-2021, 09:04 PM
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Col. Charles Askins was one of the earliest proponents for the .44 Magnum.
He stated that he wished he had one during the 10 yrs he worked for the US Border Patrol, where gunfights were a "nightly" occurrence.

Too bad he's no longer with us!
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Old 08-23-2021, 09:33 PM
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I carried a 4" Model 29 as a service revolver in 1963. Purchased it from "Keiths" in Chicago, Ill. It was mailed to me via U.S. P.O. The only ammo the local Hardware Store could get for me came in 20 round boxes JSP. After firing it the diamonds outline in the grips were printed in my hand.
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:41 PM
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P.S. I have always found the extreme recoil indictment against the 44 magnum to be almost ludicrous. In my family, if you were 5- 9, 160 pounds, with customary hand and arm strength, it was always a piece of cake, from teenage years to the present.YMMV
I'd agree with this, although I've been over 200# for my entire adult life, and pretty strong, so maybe my perspective is askew. Arthritis has set in, and I no longer shoot 200 .44 Magnums at a single sitting. 50 will have to do. Admittedly, nowadays my hands and wrists will not feel fantastic the following day. But my hands are neither bruised nor blistered. I can empty a cylinder with reasonable rapidity, and even hit things that way. "A man's got to know his limitations," though. I don't own any X frame revolvers, nor anything else that would chamber .454 Casull or larger. That stuff really is unpleasant to shoot, so I don't.
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Old 08-23-2021, 10:58 PM
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That's REAL strange.....I take my .44 Rugers and Smiths to my range and burn through a 100 or more rounds with NO PROBLEMS( 250 gr cast swc pushed by 20 grs of #2400).......It's called FUN!.......Guess those guys would run hide under the bed if ask to shoot a 460 or 500........AND I shoot all mine with the factory grips.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the reason they made the 44 magnum.
There are people who just love shooting hand cannons. The definition of a hand cannon has changed over the decades. Once it was the 357 Mag. Smith claimed it killed every game animal on earth or some such promotional drivel.
Worked so well you just up the ante and take another run. The 44 magnum.
Along came a multitude of other handgun cartridges. Too many to list. The singular appeal was that it was the biggest at the time.
And people like the poster I quoted bought them because they were the biggest and they like to shoot these powerful handguns.
There is a viable market for big and powerful.
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Old 08-24-2021, 12:18 AM
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That's REAL strange.....I take my .44 Rugers and Smiths to my range and burn through a 100 or more rounds with NO PROBLEMS( 250 gr cast swc pushed by 20 grs of #2400).......It's called FUN!.......Guess those guys would run hide under the bed if ask to shoot a 460 or 500........AND I shoot all mine with the factory grips.
My first revolver was a 6" 629 with those horrible late 80's "2x4" target grips. Man, I hated that gun. Shoot a couple of boxes and get cuts on your hand.

Slide forward a few decades and get one, then two Pre 29's with Cokes. Take them to the range and burn through 3 boxes of full power Federals no problem.

Must be the grips. (or the calluses are thicker now than when I was a kid )

Gratuitous shot of the 4"

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Old 08-24-2021, 12:56 AM
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Old 08-24-2021, 02:29 AM
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...handgun hunter supremo killed lions and elephants at 1000 yards with his .44 mag.
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