Help with Surprise Pre-Victory Model Lend Lease?

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Artyldr01

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Good evening,

This morning, completely on a whim, I stopped at one of my local pawn shops that, back in the day, was a pretty good honey hole for neat used guns. I didn't expect much, but on the bottom shelf there was very well used S&W revolver that I had to see closer, especially at $300 these days.

BNP mark jumped out and I was off to the races with my investigation. All matching SN on butt, back of cylinder, under barrel (I didn't know to look on the ejector), matching assemly marks on frame and crane, but no U.S. Property mark. No import mark. Longer 6" barrel. FTR 53 which explains I guess the plain grips. It is pretty well worn for an FTR. Sadly, a previous owner engraved his initials and full SSN on the sideplate (which I will redact before posting photos). The finish is rough, and from what Inread, should have been civilian blued, and it appears the cylinder is but the rest looks not blued.

SN is: 713139
Assembly mark: 45756

Can any one naildown delivery date? I'm guessing late 1940, early 1941.

Also, can anyone clarify the difference between Lend-Lease, British Government purchase or, for that matter, private Soldier purhchase programs and identification?

Also, any thoughts on how this would get back to the U.S.? Pre 68 import, GI bringback from SEA? With as worn as it is, but with a FTR 53 would seem to indicate a long, hard life well beyond WW2 so I am thinking Korea, Vietnam or other post WW2 conflict? Is my logic sound?

Thank you all.
 

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I will leave most of the answers to the Victory experts. But, with that low serial number it could not have been a Lend/Lease unit. In addition, the LL guns did have the property mark on the top strap.

Also, an FTR in 1953 would have nothing to do with Vietnam. At that time, it was still French Indochina. I'm pretty sure the Aussies weren't in there yet. Officially, the U.S. wasn't there either; although we were providing logistical support for the French.
 
Thanks for the response. I'm tracking 1953 is well before U.S. involvement in Vietnam, but my point was that when something leaves overhaul, they usually look "like new," so my thought was between 1953 and now, it saw a lot of hard use, perhaps in other conflicts.

Thanks again!
 
I don’t see a clear enough picture of all the markings to be sure but a ton of the FTR marked guns ( out of Australia primarily) were reimported into the states in the late 90’s early 2000’s time frame - I “think” I might see a century arms import mark on the forward right side of your frame?)

There was a small kitchen table type dealer that was a member of my gun club that bought a bunch of these in the late90’s/early 2000’s and brought a bucket full to our gun club and was selling them for 99 bucks a pop.
 
Artyldr01 said:
Good evening,

This morning, completely on a whim, I stopped at one of my local pawn shops that, back in the day, was a pretty good honey hole for neat used guns. I didn't expect much, but on the bottom shelf there was very well used S&W revolver that I had to see closer, especially at $300 these days.

BNP mark jumped out and I was off to the races with my investigation. All matching SN on butt, back of cylinder, under barrel (I didn't know to look on the ejector), matching assemly marks on frame and crane, but no U.S. Property mark. No import mark. Longer 6" barrel. FTR 53 which explains I guess the plain grips. It is pretty well worn for an FTR. Sadly, a previous owner engraved his initials and full SSN on the sideplate (which I will redact before posting photos). The finish is rough, and from what Inread, should have been civilian blued, and it appears the cylinder is but the rest looks not blued.

SN is: 713139
Assembly mark: 45756

Can any one naildown delivery date? I'm guessing late 1940, early 1941.

Also, can anyone clarify the difference between Lend-Lease, British Government purchase or, for that matter, private Soldier purhchase programs and identification?

Also, any thoughts on how this would get back to the U.S.? Pre 68 import, GI bringback from SEA? With as worn as it is, but with a FTR 53 would seem to indicate a long, hard life well beyond WW2 so I am thinking Korea, Vietnam or other post WW2 conflict? Is my logic sound?

Thank you all.
Click to expand...

Something I wrote long ago about Lend-Lease revolvers during WWII. The Lend-Lease Act of 1941 and the .38/200 Revolver
 
MajorD said:
I don’t see a clear enough picture of all the markings to be sure but a ton of the FTR marked guns ( out of Australia primarily) were reimported into the states in the late 90’s early 2000’s time frame - I “think” I might see a century arms import mark on the forward right side of your frame?)

There was a small kitchen table type dealer that was a member of my gun club that bought a bunch of these in the late90’s/early 2000’s and brought a bucket full to our gun club and was selling them for 99 bucks a pop.
Click to expand...


When I go back to the shop (it is on layaway) I'll look again. I was pretty sure there was no import mark but it wouldn't be the first time buck fever made me blind!
 
MajorD said:
I don’t see a clear enough picture of all the markings to be sure but a ton of the FTR marked guns ( out of Australia primarily) were reimported into the states in the late 90’s early 2000’s time frame - I “think” I might see a century arms import mark on the forward right side of your frame?)

There was a small kitchen table type dealer that was a member of my gun club that bought a bunch of these in the late90’s/early 2000’s and brought a bucket full to our gun club and was selling them for 99 bucks a pop.
Click to expand...

Great eye sir. I am thinking the same thing.
 
This would be a British Service Revolver manufactured under an agreement with the British government. It was probably assembled in 1940, but it would be hard to say when as shipping records show that serial numbers not far from this one shipped as early as February in that year and as late as November.

Six inch barrel, I see, which is sort of uncommon on BSRs and therefore nice.

The proof stamps show that this piece of former military equipment met British standards required for release to the commercial sector. The British proof mark and ID stamps suggest it was in British hands during WWII, and not some other Commonwealth country. I thnk many such revolvers entered this country in the '50s and early '60s before the importer stamp was mandated.

I always think of FTR stamps in connection with Australian WWII revolvers. I don't believe I have ever seen one come out of Postwar Britain. Or if I have seen one, it simply made no impression on me.
 
Last edited:
Artyldr01 said:
Sadly, a previous owner engraved his initials and full SSN on the sideplate (which I will redact before posting photos).

... GI bringback from SEA? With as worn as it is, but with a FTR 53 would seem to indicate a long, hard life well beyond WW2 so I am thinking Korea, Vietnam or other post WW2 conflict? Is my logic sound?

Thank you all.
Click to expand...

I am thinking it was just bouncing around various Pawn Shops after it was brought back.

The worn look is because it was not maintained as well as it should be. It never saw any conflict. JMHO
 
I agree with normally expecting to see an import mark on these, so it is very possible I overlooked it. That said, many guns also came back to the U.S. not via importers or pre-1968, so I would not be surprised if this, in fact, does not have an import mark. I will definitely take a closer look next visit.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
Thank you, DC. I appreciate the insight. I also figured that since most Commonwealth countries have very defined marks, D /I\ D, for example, this was almost assuredly British.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
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