Anyone have a way of responding with info?

Many thanks,

Dyson

IS there ANYONE willing to send me copies of the .44 Associates newsletters or the numbered data
publication ???

I will gladly spend the time it takes to clean them up , scan them at high resolution,and make them available as jpg files !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

I read of this many years ago, like over 40. I belive it was a group seems like kentucky, that exchanged loads, shooting info and testing many combo loads way back. I read it 40 years ago, and the article was about the group way before that!

Hi, Conrad - I, too, am having issues downloading the articles.

Any chance of a different format-for Windows XP.

Regards,

Dyson

Still hoping someone can/will share the 44 Associates' data...Or other relevant info. Heck, the 44 Special is really what most 44 Mag shooters reload..So there is a lot of interest.

Best,

Dyson

Back to top for any further input or the addition of the 1940s' publication.

Thanks,

Dyson

Question regarding the '44 Asssociates', can anyone tell me when the group was formed?

Thanks,

What Cheer

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Fair winds and a fast ship.

I am also very interested in the old data. I have a collection of old AR magazines and will go through them looking for articles of interest Re:44 Spcl.

Keith included a significant amount of data in his book "Sixguns".

Seems like there would be some interest in a run of these, at a cost that would defray the expenses. I wonder what some outfit like Kinko's would want to print some off?

Some disclaimer as to liability and a note to the effect that it was being published as a historical reference would seem to take care of the fringe element. A lot of it would be very similar to Keith's writings from the same time period, and those are still in circulation.

I'd like one in my archives...

Conrad:

Thank you VERY much for posting the HIGH RESOLUTION pdf files of these articles !

OUTSTANDING work !

This is a great start. Now we need to expand and continue the effort !

Anyone else have offerings?

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

I have downloaded the .pdf files and I have read all but three or four words of Gordon Boser's August 1944 article on the Triple Lock Revolver and the .44 Special cartridge. I have also just read all three of the John W. Zlatich articles, one of which was new to me: the article contrasting and comparing the terminal performance of comparable bullets fired from .357 Magnum and .44 Special revolvers. I promise that I will soon read the other articles. Gentlemen, thank you for making all this possible!

We thank you, Gunhacker, for your contributions. Can anyone step forward with the 44 Associates booklet?

Regards,

Dyson

Conrad:

Thank you for the latest additions to your downloadable files !

VERY well done !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

I would like to thank you Jerry and all who worked on these files.
Excellent reading and reference material.

Duplicate post removed

Very cool little thread. Would be cool to have one link to go to and see all this info discussed here in this thread. Strong work to the OP and the rest of you guys for jumping in.

Thanks for pulling this topic out of the past. I had always hoped to turn up from a donor a copy of the Asociates' book of load data that we could all share for study. Mind you, not necessarily for replication of the old loads, many of which no doubt lacked pressure data and were probably in old semi-balloon cases to boot.

Thanks,

Dyson

I havent activly reloaded in a number of years, I am wondering if the powders are the same as they were back then? Havent some changed the recipes and still use the same name or numbers on some of them?

Three pages from Lyman's "Handbook of Cast Bullets", published in July 1958. Two give recommended loads from two of "The Associates", and the third is dedicated the Lyman #429421 - the famous Keith Semi-Wadcutter.

Jim

And now for the disclaimer:
Remember, this info is now more than 50 years old. So please, enjoy these pages for their historical value and NOT as recommendations for handloading.

Attached Images

	Ray Thompson.jpg (102.1 KB, 247 views)
	429421.jpg (91.7 KB, 234 views)
	Elmer Keith.jpg (110.4 KB, 276 views)

OK folks.
The CD from Conrad arrived today and I have put the 8 files up on my web server like I promised.
They are located here:

44 Special Articles

Enjoy.

Thanks a bunch!!! I really appreciate that!

Good Lord, what an array and just super compilation of info on the 44 special. I burned up 20-11 bottle of ink printing them out

Thanks ever so much. This will provide much fodder around the campfire this weekend.

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Slim, U.S. Army, Ret.

I would like to thank all who made it possible for us to save these "Vintage Articles".

By the way, I have a copy of the NRA Reloading Handbook article on the .44 Special complete with pressure data.

Matt, if you will write me direct, I will send it Email by attachment. It is excellent information.

I also have Brian Pearce's articles on the new Ruger .44 Special Flattops complete with MODERN loading data, if you want to post, that, also.

Matt if you post these with a link like you did the eight articles, then everyone will be able to download them. I am sure it will be appreciated.

My email address is: rmcgee @ zoomtown dot com (slightly disguised)...

Dale53

Matt G: please look for PM from me.

Thanks,

Dyson

DGNY and Dale53; e-mails sent.

I'm grateful this thread made the "Notable Thread Index."

Yes , thanks to those who arrange such inclusion. In a sense, the .44 Special was the premier S&W cartridge from its introduction until the 38-44 came on the scene, and perhaps 'til the .357 Magnum was born. This prominence was thanks to its boosters and hallowed experimenters of bygone decades.

And by its potential and use for hunting, which lay unrecognized formally for another 25 or so years after the 38-44 , it led directly to another premier cartridge, the famous .44 Magnum.

Such a heritage, such utility and such association with handgun notables of the glory days of handgun shooting, when giants roamed the ranges, indeed qualifies the cartridge, and even this small tribute thread, for the title Notable.

Thanks again,

Dyson

This is a really nice find with lots of historic and useful information. Thanks for all the effort that went into assembling these for everyone to enjoy.

I just discovered that I have the February 1949 issue of American Rifleman and can scan in the article "Magnumizing the .44". I can then email it to Matt if he would like to put it on his server with the others.

Would love to 125JHP.
PM and e-mail have been sent.
I have an article to get posted that Dyson sent me, and Dale53 is sending along some stuff via CD.
This collection of data for the 44 Special is just going to get better as time goes on.

Thanks, Matt. Your work has elevated our knowledge and made study much easier. Now all [hah] we need is a copy of the .44 Associates' booklet to share via posting!

I wonder if anyone has a few semi-balloon cases to do a volume measurement vs, say, a same-make case of modern manufacture. I have a hunch that the old cases were almost .44 Mag capacity, tho far less strong a] in their construction and b] in their weaker old-gun firing environment.

Regards,

Dyson

I think the only articles I can access are the ones Matt G. posted and the images Triplelock posted. Is there anything actually missing from that list that needs to be refreshed?

I have several sections of reloading manuals posted here, BBHFarm Gallery :: Reloading Manuals and could add some of the articles as images.

Thanks to all who have contributed and provided a place on the net to post this information in a central place.

Hoping that someone with a copy of the 44 Associates Newsletter will provide it...

DGNY was kind enough to provide a copy of an article written by Gordon Boser in the August 1944 issue of the American Rifleman.
The article is titled S&W Triplelock and the 44 Special Cartridge
FYI, it's a bit blurry and a little hard to read. That is the way it was received by DGNY.
There isn't anything that can be done about it.
I am looking to get another copy of that article. I have already e-mailed a potential source and if he comes through I will be able to post another copy of that article.

Here's the link again:

44 Special Articles

Too bad I can't make that link my signature.

Got another update.
125JHP sent along a scanned pdf of "Magnumizing the .44" by George Rice.
It is the pdf file named 44 spl - feb 1949 american rifleman.pdf at the link above.

Great info....................

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Matt & Mike:

Do we know any of the living "members" of the .44 Associates so we can get some idea of how many people were interacting with each other? Are we talking one or two dozen individuals or many? Even though they printed 200 copies of the loading booklet it may have been a very small group ! ?

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

If you look at the fifth page of the pdf file, you'll see the list of sources for all the data in the booklet.
I think it is a pretty safe bet that those individuals listed there were all members of the 44 Associates.
Now whether that is all the members or not, who knows.
By my count there are 14 individuals in that list.
Gordon C. Boser
George V. Chapman
Eric M. Farr
Elmer Keith
J.W. Landon
R.G. Mosgrove
F.C. Ness
Lawrence I. Newton
Capt. Philip B. Sharpe
J.A. Smith
George W. Spence
Ray C. Thompson
Norman P. White
O.L. Yancey

If there were other members, they didn't contribute any data that was included in this booklet.
FWIW...

Thanks to all those who are continuing this educational journey. I wonder of anyone here owns one [or more] of the very .44s that these .44 Associates used in their excursions into the frontiers of the .44 Magnum? Or if one of our numbers knows the location of such a gun, in addition to the EK .44, which I think is in a display. [Refresher needed.] It would be a hoot to locate and get a shooting report on such a piece.

Also wonder if a modern distributor would care to do a run of ".44 Associates 4" or 6.5" or even 5" .44 S&W Special N-frame non-lock square-butt revolvers? Like a Model 24-3, but perhaps marked '.44 Associates', yet made like an enhanced Model 29 but with short chamber for .44 Special.

Regards,

Dyson

I'd get in line for one. Definately.

Hi Dyson,

A prototype (so to speak) of your desired gun has been produced by S&W. It is a 24-4.
I'm sure you're aware of "The Twelve Revolvers", a distributor exclusive shown in the SCSW 3rd edition. One of these revolvers was a 44 Spl and since it was not produced until 1990, well after the limited run of 24-3 .44s, it had all the features of the N frame enhancements of the period including the longer cyl stop notches. It was stamped 24-4. Unbeknownst to most but typical for dist. exc. guns, there were "over run" guns. I recently past up one for sale, but was sorely tempted since I have the same desire as you described. Ruger has made a set of 44 Assoc single action 44s for current living Assoc. members with a few "over runs" also floating around.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Sweet.... those Lipsey's .44's are a rare breed here in CA, I'm drooling on my keyboard..

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Resurrecting this one, with a page of loads for the .44 Special from the 1937 edition of Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading". I have tracked down a copy of Ken Waters' article from Handloading Magazine, and will post a copy when I get it thru the scanner.

TL

Attached Images

Complete Guide to Handloading - 44 Special.jpg (82.7 KB, 111 views)

Interesting thing about that chart is they specify seating depth, not overall length. Perhaps they were more attuned to effective case capacity than most of us today.

What a lot of old info for my .44's!
Thanks!!

It was mentioned in a previous post about " 2400 " powder changing , it's different than it used to be . I would personally like to see some proof of that . Don't tell me what some mag writer said , it's just another opinion .
I personally called Alliant several yrs ago about this subject . I talked to a VP . When I asked him if it had changed ? He replied " Not to my knowledge " and went on to explain that they have a sample of the original 2400 . He added , If they changed it , it would have to be called " 2300 " or " 2500 " . He said you can't just change the burn rate and keep the original name . Believe what you want , But what I posted is not my opinion , but the voice of someone at Alliant .
Elmer Keiths load in the 44spl using newer cases exhibited approx 25,000psi . It has been tested several times in later years and still has the same pressure rating . No Change !

My name's Larry and I'm a .44 addict.
Profoundest thanks to all who contributed to this wealth of .44 lore. I don't have a printer, but if the Associates' data ever sees a distributable printing, I will certainly be interested in a copy.

Larry

Mr. Bryson - I may have missed your original post. It sounds like someone offended you. If that's the case, I'm sorry to hear that, but if you have anything on the "44 Associates" and you are reluctant to post it here, I would be interested privately. (EM address in my profile.)

I imagine much of the loading data is dated, but I have always been more interested in the background info, anyway.

Well folks for whatever resaon the file hosting website is no longer allowing downloads... so I'm looking for another site.

Update: I've tried using 3 different file hosting websites I've joined and I can't get the links to work in my post... anyone have any experience doing this kind of thing? I'm stumped.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I have asked on several occasions if anyone had the data and newsletters available from the old .44 Associates ! To date nobody has come forward with any of the printed material ! I would doubt if it is copyrighted but may be wrong since I have never been able to see any issues.

If people have material I would be willing to scan, clean up prints, and make them available.

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

Hey Guys... lost my broadband internet connection yesterday afternoon before I could upload the latest offerings, it just came back on about 1/2 hr ago.

I added articles from Handloader Magazine which I have from issue#1 (1966) to current.

The Oct 1996 article in particular is a great read about the .44 Spl looking back. .

I also have the Annual Gun Digest books from #1(1944) to #60(2006), so if anyone knows of a particular article in one of those issues, let me know and I'll try to scan and upload it.

And I also have Shooting Times Magazine from Issue #1 (1961 I think) to the year that Skeeter Skelton passed away. Same as above, if there's an article of interest about the .44 Spl let me know.

One other comment about the loads that the .44 associates published and other vintage data, remember... the cases used were the old style balloon head ones that held a tad bit more powder that today's modern cases with the solid case heads... so again, gotta be careful with the old reloading data and not go right to the charge listed... start at 80% and work upwards looking for signs of excessive pressure.

Hey Jerry... should I be scanning these things in greyscale if they are black & white articles? I'm kind of new at this so I've been using the scanner software wizard and taking the default settings.

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UPDATE 12/24/11 : The articles are now on file hosting site graciously provided by member Matt G: 44_Special_Articles
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..

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222