Is the S&W Front Locking Bolt a Gimmick?

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SmithSwede

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I'm wondering if anyone has some solid data or information about this issue.

Seems to me that the front locking bolt on a S&W revolver doesn't really do anything useful. And that design has a lot of potential downsides. What is the design intent of this? To increase accuracy by making the cylinder stay in place more accurately? To assist with the cylinder rotation and its timing?

I've examined a lot of my S&Ws, and there is a lot of slop or play at the end of the ejector rod. So even if you were able to effectively "lock" the end of the ejector rod in place, that play would still permit the cylinder to flop around--the rod might be locked in place but the cylinder itself would not be.

But even worse, when the cylinder is closed and the ejector rod is supposedly "locked" into place, the amount of play is usually about the same. In other words, the rod isn't really getting locked at all.

Anyone got good data on this?

Seems like somebody might have experimented by removing the front locking bolt and its spring, effectively negating this system, and then tested to see if there was any discernable difference in accuracy or the timing of the mechanism.
 

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Ive had that in a couple of my pistols cause more trouble than what its worth. the cylinder was harder to close so I removed it. As far as accuracy couldn't tell a difference. Colt doesn't use one.
 
I have similar thoughts. I don't really think it's all that necessary, but it does help protect the rod from snags. IF you remove the lug tooth or don't have a barrel installed and then watch the front of the yoke while it running the action the yoke shouldn't move away from the frame on a gun that is functioning correctly. It might if the cylinder wasn't turning freely for some reason, but NORMALLY the cylinder turns quite easily and the hand is working right beside the center pin locked into the frame. Maybe a bunch of crud in gas ring or drag on rear barrel face could cause the yoke to spring out a bit. More than a few competitive PPC guns never had any front lock

It certainly doesn't hurt anything, but I also think the yoke ball lock also works just as well and if you mount such a yoke with no cylinder the amount of force needed to over come the ball detent lock is pretty small

Colt doesn't use one because their hand works on the opposite side and turns the cylinder into the frame.

Any problems with the front lug and the end of rod are easy to fix. It is a fitted part after all.
 
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One can argue that since the Colt revolver doesn't need the front locking point, that S & W doesn't either. So either the thirfty Yankee gunsmiths that added the feature onto their revolvers after the .32 model of 1896 and .38 model of 1899 did it for marketing purposes, or they added those extra machining processes and such because they thought they had to from an engineering standpoint. I would guess answer B.
 
I don’t have any “data” for you and I have no formal training in weapons design or repair but I can tell you, based on years of experience, that when you want something held in place, the more points you have to tie it down the more successful you will be. As to the old saw about which direction the Colt and S&W cylinders rotate, consider the close proximity to the center pin of the hand and the ratchet. The concern over the S&W cylinder and yoke rotating away from the frame seems like it should be minimal.
 
Front end lock????????????

The "front lock" and the "rear centering pin" work together! Is the front lock a lock or a device used to ensure the center pin is pushed to the rear which centers and locks the cylinder in place for firing? There are springs associated with the center pin, but dirt and gunk can defeat these springs!
jcelect
 
The Colt design doesn't need a front locking lug...the S&W design does...as does any revolver design with a counter-clockwise rotating cylinder.

S&W used no front locking lug in the first year of M&P production...then added it because it found necessary.
 
SnidelyWhiplash said:
The Colt design doesn't need a front locking lug...the S&W design does...as does any revolver design with a counter-clockwise rotating cylinder.

S&W used no front locking lug in the first year of M&P production...then added it because it found necessary.
Click to expand...

I agree with your first statement, but am curious how you know that the locking lug was needed after the Model 1899 was introduced? I know of no stories about the failures of that model. I shoot all my Model 1899 revolvers and find them to still operate perfectly with all standard 38 Special ammo. I also note that there are many for sale and almost all indicate they are in good mechanical condition after nearly 130 years of use.
 
I'm just guessing, but maybe it might have been something contrived to meet the needs of a military contract or evaluation. Sometimes the services come up with a "better idea" and if your product incorporates that idea, you get a leg up on the competition. There were lots of boards and evaluations happening when this improvement came along. Just a thought...
 
Fast shooting with a counter-clockwise rotating cylinder without a front locking point will negatively affect the timing and create a situation where bullet shaving occurs. That upsets accuracy as well as hitting the shooter or those nearby. In single-action shooting the effect is negligible...in double-action it can be a problem. It only makes sense that S&W engineers realized this and added the front locking system...otherwise there's no reason for spending funds on additional engineering.
 
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