NON BRITISH EXPORT .455 MK II HE 2nd MODEL

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DrRandyHester

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I have a Webley Mark VI in .455 and also wanted a S&W in .455, and I just won this unconverted one on Gun Broker from J. Davis & Sons, St. Louis, for $860. I haven't received it yet, but the ad said it has no export marks, and none of the 20 photos show any. The Serial Number is 6860X , all matching, which I gather was made late in the 1917 run.

Does anyone know how many were not shipped to England or Canada? I gather the .455 was not a popular choice in the US market.
 

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That one did not go to England, but rather to Canada. You don't see too many nice old 455s like yours for sale anymore. I would tighten the mainspring screw until is stops turning. Many owners like light actions, so they back out these screws, but doing that also weakens the primer strike.

We missed your last question. Neal & Jinks book states that about 14,500 were shipped to Canada and 1105 were commercial. That serial number would be late in production and it is indicated that the late guns received fewer and fewer stampings for both British and Canadian troops. Also, it is stated by some that most Canadian guns went to the NWMP for service in-country during the war.
 
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I saw that stamp on the butt and could make out the 30 but the other mark wasn't clear. Figured I would check it out when it comes in. Canada makes more sense than S&W not exporting and then trying to sell .455 in the USA
 
DrRandyHester said:
I saw that stamp on the butt and could make out the 30 but the other mark wasn't clear. Figured I would check it out when it comes in. Canada makes more sense than S&W not exporting and then trying to sell .455 in the USA
Click to expand...

S&W did sell some .455 revolvers here in the States. Probably overruns.

Some were sold in states along the Canadian border. Maine comes to mind, from some old posts.
 
This commercial model .455 HE, 2nd went to Shapleigh Hardware along with around 1000 others in December 1917 after the British contract ended.


wiregrassguy-albums-large-frame-revolvers-picture11898-1307070020.jpg
 
I ended up with two of these. One is really nice and the other one shows a bit of wear. The nicer one only has the crown over 30 proof mark like the OPs and the other one has a crown over II with a sold out of service mark.

Do you plan on shooting it? They are fantastic guns to shoot and can be very accurate.

I mainly collect pre-war Colts but these are two of my favorite guns.

EVmi1C5h.jpg


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Although Jet Munitions in Alberta appears to be out of business they used to sell 0.265 grain led bullets for the 0.455 so you could load Mk1 or Mk II cases as the 0.455 Mk VI would take either. I was lucky enough to pick up 500 heads and still have a few left. Dave_n
 
@470EVANS
Definitely planning on shooting it. I got 200 Starline .455 Mark II brass for my Webley Mark VI but haven't loaded any yet. I'm tossed up on bullet size I have 255 gr LRN Flat Points in both .452 and .454. The Webley's cylinder throat is pretty much right on at .454 since I don't have the S&W yet I don't know about its throat diameter. I don't have any plans to slug the barrel because I don't cast bullets. I'm thinking about using Bullseye or Win 231 powder. Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated. Those are truly outstanding 25-yard groups about what I get with my S&W Model 52, which is made for target shooting, not combat. I, too, collect prewar Colt Officer's Match revolvers. My prize is a .32 Heavy Barrel, one of the 400 shipped to MA on Jan. 18, 1941. As you probably know, MA mistakenly ordered .32 Longs instead of .38 Specials. It has the original box, paperwork, brush, and Colt letter. Appears unfired.
 
DrRandyHester,

The throats on my two Smith's measure .456 with -pin gauges as do the throats on my Colts in 455.

I size my bullets to that but I think .454 bullets will shoot fine. As far as powder goes, I experiment with different ones along with different bullet weights to get a good group that shoots to the sights.

I will say I have had much better success with the 454424 and the RCBS 270 SAA bullet then the bullets originally designed for the 455 which are the pointed hollow base 262gr+-.

I do have a couple hundred of those bullets cast and powder coated. If you'd like to try them let me know and I'll send some. They are cast from 20-1 alloy. They look great in the 455 case but I was never very happy with how they shoot.
 
DrRandyHester said:
I have a Webley Mark VI in .455 and also wanted a S&W in .455, and I just won this unconverted one on Gun Broker from J. Davis & Sons, St. Louis, for $860. I haven't received it yet, but the ad said it has no export marks, and none of the 20 photos show any. The Serial Number is 6860X , all matching, which I gather was made late in the 1917 run.

Does anyone know how many were not shipped to England or Canada? I gather the .455 was not a popular choice in the US market.
Click to expand...

$860 is a good price for this revolver. Is that all inclusive, or before sales tax, shipping, and any other factors are factored in?

Gunbroker seemed to be the land of impatience, folks wanting to find what they want with very little effort and pay whatever it takes to get it. Any idiot with a computer connection and a thick wallet can play the game.

And just three weeks ago, I scored an amazing deal on Gunbroker. It was a firearm I was aware of, and the seller had a ridiculously high price on it until he moved it to Gunbroker with a penny start and no reserve. In my experience, those auctions tend to usually end at well over full retail. I only followed this firearm due to previous awareness of it and the owner’s reputation.

Amazingly, I got it for about a third of what the seller was previously asking for it and half what it’s actually worth. Either folks are coming to their senses or firearms aren’t worth what they once were worth. Ending the auction on a Tuesday morning also didn’t help the seller any.

Either folks bidding on Gunbroker have finally come to their senses—which seems unlikely—or firearms just aren’t worth what they once were. I think on 05 November, firearms were poised to rise or drop 20% based on the election results. I’m not complaining about the election results, but this is an unfortunate side effect of a favorable outcome.
 
@mrcvs
I prefer Guns International on equally priced items because there's no sales tax which in Texas is 8.25%. This one with Shipping ($28) came to $917.60 The dealer set it on a penny auction with a Buy It Now price of $1750.00. I got an absolutely beautiful unshaved Webley Mark VI from Bass Pro for $850 plus tax and free shipping. I can't figure out where some of these guys come up with prices. I'm seeing $2000-$3000+ on both Webleys and S&Ws in .455. Gun Broker has many starting bids in the same range, and every one has zero bids. During COVID you couldn't find guns or ammo. Things have changed. I have a clean, very decent Colt Woodsman Match Target listed for $700 with no interest, but I see ones not much better listed for $1500. GO FIGURE !
 
470Evans said:
DrRandyHester,

The throats on my two Smith's measure .456 with -pin gauges as do the throats on my Colts in 455.

I size my bullets to that but I think .454 bullets will shoot fine. As far as powder goes, I experiment with different ones along with different bullet weights to get a good group that shoots to the sights.

I will say I have had much better success with the 454424 and the RCBS 270 SAA bullet then the bullets originally designed for the 455 which are the pointed hollow base 262gr+-.

I do have a couple hundred of those bullets cast and powder coated. If you'd like to try them let me know and I'll send some. They are cast from 20-1 alloy. They look great in the 455 case but I was never very happy with how they shoot.
Click to expand...

@470EVANS
Thanks for the offer. I have some coated .454 and some .454 Hornady truncated cowboy bullets. I may take you up on your kind offer, but I'll play around with what I have right now. IThree of us own a ranch house and 196 acres to go to to shoot 45 miles from home, so we mainly kill a lot of steel and water bottles. JUST FUN !
 
I do not know what the average 455 is worth today, but I bought this one for $350 8 years ago. Have three 455s and shoot them regularly. Bought a bullet mold for the 455 Mark II ammo and they are as the originals, hollow base with tapered round nose. Had great luck with Trail Boss, but unless you already have some, it is not possible to purchase TB now.

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