Winchester Super Speed .38 Special Ammo? updated pics

smith17

smith17

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Has anyone seen this pre-war style box which has SUPER SPEED .38 SPECIAL on the second line? I am in contact with a gentleman who has one but the pic is very fuzzy. I was not aware of that particular design until recently. The K code is K3862T. No mention of Olin Industries.
Ed
winchesterss38specialbox.jpg
 
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Has anyone seen this pre-war style box which has SUPER SPEED .38 SPECIAL on the second line? I am in contact with a gentleman who has one but the pic is very fuzzy. I was not aware of that particular design until recently. The K code is K3862T. No mention of Olin Industries.
Ed
winchesterss38specialbox.jpg
 
Ed, That's a very rare box,seldom seen. It was produced circa early 1930s. The box graphics design is a common one for Winchester ammo of the period but the rare part is the caliber - .38 S&W Special. I don't think Ray Giles in his book " Winchester Cartridges Boxes 1856-1956" shows that caliber in that box design, he couldn't find one to photo.
 
Ed:
Thanks for the answer. Before I had access to the small photo, I contacted Ray to run that exact question by him but my worded description was poor and he said he needed a photo after he returned from a trip. I have a couple of similar boxes of the same general design but they lack the SUPER SPEED callout and have .38 S&W SPECIAL strewn across the second line. I gave away my only period Winchester catalog from the late 30s and don't have a reference for the K code which might indicate how different the performance of this bullet was from the conventional ones. thanks again.
Ed
 
I finally got my hands on the box and it is a bit later than earlier mentioned since it has a Division of Western Cartridge Co. callout on one side, placing it as a '1939' style box. The same design without the callout would be a 1935 style and one with an Olin Industries callout is a 1945 style. It apparently is for the .38/44 guns since one of the sides mentions that gun and the .357 magnum.
I included a pic at the bottom of a predecessor of this box which Ray Giles and Dan Shuey identify as a 1935 style.
Ed
winchesterss38end.jpg
winchesterss38side.jpg
winchesterss381939.jpg
38superspeed1935ammo.jpg
 
Ed. Great find on the "1935" Style Winchester box! I didn't know Winchester made their Super Speed loading in that box. I agree that the red, blue and white box that you picture, which I always thought to be a sort of evolutionary version of Winchester's "1928" Style box, predates this "1935" Style box. Ray Giles' book states that red, blue and white style box was first used around 1935. The reference to "Division of Western Cartridge Company" dates this particular version of the "1935" Style box no earlier than 1938, the year Winchester became a Division of Western. This is consistent with the call outs for the S&W and Colt 357 Magnum revolvers which indicate the box was actually printed after the Colt 357 Magnum revolvers hit the market in the later 1930's. In addition, the "Staynless" and "Non-Mercuric" call outs, which aren't on the "1935" Style box, look to be carry overs from, and closely related in time to, Winchester's "1928" Style box. Also, it looks as though Winchester did not use the two style of both boxes at the same as I have a red, blue and white box with Super Speed Kopperklad lead bullets - also with the K3862T code. All this makes you wish that Winchester and the other ammo makers kept better records as to when they used their different styles of boxes.
 
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I have seen some green boxes of the older Remington ammo that was labeled super police. The rounds like tidentical to the ones pictured on that Winchester box. I would imagine they aren't as early but do they have value? What would be the value for a full box of 50?
 
I see this is an old thread, but I have 1,000 pieces of "Super Speed 38 Special" brass. They are in pristine boxes, but I don't know much about boxes. I am a reloader and what I find unusual about the brass is that it takes large pistol primers where 38 Special traditionally take small pistol primers. Does anyone know anything about this brass?
 
Giles and Shuey's book generally does not treat handgun, rimfire, or shotgun ammunition, only ammunition that was used, or could be used, in rifles, such as .44-40, .32-20, etc. However, as the same types of boxes were used for handgun ammunition, the key identification features are the same and can be used to date the period of use of the boxes.

Don't get too excited over value. Unless full, with the box in mint condition, you won't send the kids to college on sales proceeds. There is more of it around than you might imagine, and I find similar stuff cheap frequently at garage and estate sales. The principal market includes those who have an old gun and want a period box of ammunition to go with it for display purposes. Older and unusual boxed ammunition can bring some serious bucks.
 
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