Roper grip quesstion

Raider

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The more photos I see of these beautiful Roper grips, the more I want a pair. The grip's classic lines along with the checkering with the ribbon decoration just fascinate me. Now, I have a question for those who own a pair.

What is the lines per inch of the checkering? I'm wondering if its consistent during the years they were made or did the LPI vary some.

Many thanks for your thoughts.
 
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The more photos I see of these beautiful Roper grips, the more I want a pair. The grip's classic lines along with the checkering with the ribbon decoration just fascinate me. Now, I have a question for those who own a pair.

What is the lines per inch of the checkering? I'm wondering if its consistent during the years they were made or did the LPI vary some.

Many thanks for your thoughts.
 
I do know that it varies. I have a pair that appear to be hand-cut, and
Keith Brown thought so also, after seeing the pictures. These are a very
coarse checkering. Other Ropers I have are much finer checkering, and maybe
they were machine-checkered. I say this because of Keith identifying some as
hand checkering.

If you have an interest, you should get the Roper book - there are lots of
pictures of Roper stocks in there, and they were made for a variety of guns.

Later, Mike Priwer

By the way, here is the example of coarse hand-cutting:

DJRoperLeftSTock.jpg
 
Thanks Mike! Can you give the actual title of the Roper book and the name of its author. I will sure buy that one.
 
The author is Walter Roper, and it was published in the 1930's, or thereabouts.

You will have to look for it - its not exactly in current print.

Later, Mike Priwer
 
Raider, I would say the average of the original sets that I've seen is 18 LPI, some are as coarse as 14-16 LPI and these are most probably done by the hand of Mathias Gagne. Mr. Gagne was described By Walter Roper in "Experiments of a Handgunner" as a master workman and I believe elsewhere as a cabinet/clock maker. I have a picture from an American Rifleman article showing Mr.Gagne "checking" a set of grips with a V chisel, one push, one line cut to full depth. This would be very fast but even in skilled hands would result in rather coarse checkering. Mr. Gagnes son worked making grips along side his father and it's possible that the grips with the finer checkering were done by him using conventional tools for the job. This is just my guess though, not known fact. The LPI did vary from set to set but I don't know if it changed steadily over the years or was random, my guess would be random based on the job at hand and mood of the maker. I usually use 18 LPI for N-frame grips and 20 LPI for K-frame as this seems in proportion to my eye. The copy I have of the book mentioned above was printed by Wolfe Publishing Company, Prescott, Arizona in may of 1989. Hope this helps.

Keith
 
Thank you, Keith, for the excellent info. I will contact Wolfe in hopes that they may have a spare copy lying around. Will also search other sellers of gun related books.
 
Hi Raider. I have a copy, and it is called "Pistol and Revolver Shooting" by Walter Roper, 1945. MacMillan Printing. My copy is the third printing from 1946, and there may be others. Drop me an e-mail and I can send you some photos. Some are a hoot. Ropers on PPK's, Lugers, etc. Most have that ribbon checkering. I understand that Ropers grip maker (Gagnon I think?) ended up working for S&W and invented the "Coke Bottle" targets post-war. I know someone at Colt was watching as early Python and Officer's Model Match grips are dead ringers for Ropers. If you cannot afford Keith's grips, Herrett's makes a great feeling Roper. I don't know about the ribbon checkering though. God Bless, Marc
 
Roper actually wrote two books and both of them are interesting. He also was a columnist for The American Rifleman for much of the 1930s and I've listed some of the more interesting articles by or about him below. Mathias Gagne carved most of the revolver stocks but at the peak of their popularity Roper hired W.D.H. Nichols to make stocks for automatic pistols and they also offered a machine checkered stock.

Mathias Gagne never worked for S&W. Roper did in the 1920s and Albert Gagne (Mathias' son) worked in the shipping department in the 1950s. He was also on the company's pistol and revolver team. He developed the coke bottle stocks.

- “Some New Grips for S&W Revolvers,” F.C. Ness, The American Rifleman, Dope Bag, August, 1934
- “The Mechanics of Handgun Stocks” by Howard Langley, The American Rifleman, November, 1941
- Pistol and Revolver Shooting by Walter F. Roper, The Macmillan Company, New York, 1945
- Experiments of a Handgunner by Walter F. Roper, Stackpole and Heck, Inc., New York, 1949
- “Double-Action Shooting,” Walter F. Roper, The American Rifleman, circa 1947
- “Notes on Pistols,” Boyd Cherry, The American Rifleman, January, 1948
- “Well, I’ll be darned…,” Walter F. Roper, The American Rifleman, March, 1948
- “Custom Stocks,” Walter F. Roper, The American Rifleman, June, 1948
- “Handgun Grips,” Elliott Jones, The American Rifleman, circa 1949
- “Custom-Made Revolver and Pistol Stocks and Their Value to the Target Shooter,” Edward A. Kiessling, The U.S. Hand-gunner, May, 1952


Regards,
Kevin Williams
 
Originally posted by kwill1911:
and Albert Gagne (Mathias' son) worked in the shipping department in the 1950s.... He developed the coke bottle stocks.

Thats an interesting tidbit I didn't know. It kind of makes sense that he'd apply the methodology used on the roper ordering system to improve standard grips, too.

When you ordered Ropers, they had you trace the outline of your shooting hand. They somehow used that to produce a grip that fit your hand.

One of the things you notice when you buy a set of Ropers, on or off a gun, is that some seem to just feel perfect and others not. I attribute that to them being custom made for each shooter. Some had hands like mine, others bigger or smaller. The advice collectors give is anyone seeing a pair, on or off a gun, should just buy them. Regardless of the fit to you its great trading stock. If they fit your hand, keep them.
 
Originally posted by mikepriwer:

What are those numbers that you display

It was a semi-private joke between me and
icon_smile.gif
sprey, long ago. It relates to total post count, his vs mine.
 
Kevin,Thanks for the bibliography of American Rifleman articles on Ropers. I will be rummaging through banker boxes for the next few days--thanks a lot[I think] Regards, Bart
 
Great thread! After reading this, I checked my only Registered Magnum which, unfortunately, was reblued back in the 50's or 60's, and had what I called 'aftermarket' grips on it...which I find are Ropers. Good information, as always.

MikeyL
 
Just in case anyone here doesn't know, Keith (Bis45) makes outstanding reproductions of the Ropers, using better wood and exercising greater care than the originals. They are truly beautiful:

KBRopersOnlySizes.jpg
 
I should have stated before I rambled in my last post that all the info I have on Roper grips I have been kindly given by forum members through emails,phone calls,copies of magazine articles,CDs and the loan of original Roper grips for study and measurement. The compiled facts and the research to find them was done by others, not me. Kevin Williams penned what I would think is the most complete history of Mr. Gagne and his grips, this article was printed in the S&WCA Journal, although I'm not sure of the exact issue. Raider, I would be happy to send you a copy of the article with Kevin's permission. The photo Mike added is a great example of the chisel cut checkering. I'm including photos that were included in a September 1938 American Rifleman article showing Mr. Gagne at work with a chisel doing "checking".
img366016.jpg

img366017.jpg

img366015.jpg


These are scans of copies, sorry for the quality but it should serve as a good example of what was done.

quote:
Originally posted by kwill1911:
and Albert Gagne (Mathias' son) worked in the shipping department in the 1950s.... He developed the coke bottle stocks.

If you take a Roper stock and look just at the shape of the right panel it would generally form the "coke" stock shape if reproduced in mirror image for the left panel, makes sense to me that Albert Gagne used this style when at S&W
to develop the "coke" stocks.

MikeyL, how about a picture of you RM and Roper stocks!

Keith
 
Originally posted by Jebus35745:
Those grips from Keith are beautiful. What kind of wood are they made of? Larry
I believe the one's I show above on Keith's Ropers are "exhibition grade French walnut" which may be the same thing as Circassian walnut, which for some reason in my mind has something to do with Turkey. Maybe it is just a walnut species distinct from the one we have.

Keith also uses Noth American walnut, and other woods. If you order a set, which he also has you supply a handprint for so that they'll fit your hand perfectly, you can choose the sort of wood and the sort of Roper style you like.

He also does superb factory grip repros, like these pre-war N-frame magnas on American walnut:

KBPrewarMagna.jpg


Say,Keith, do you do Colt stocks, too, e.g., the fully checked (checkered?) target stocks of the middle '50s like for the early Pythons? (Colt used a checking machine from the '30s, I think, and the LPI is way up there. Doing a repro by hand would be quite demanding, I should think.)
 
Thank you Jebus, and the grips are made from french walnut. Onomea,
As I understand it true circassian walnut comes from turkey, although I'm sure some is sold that comes from somewhere else. It's a slow growing wood living in harsh conditions, perfect for making pretty wood. As to the Colt stocks, no I don't do them at this time simply because I don't own any Colts other than the 1911. It's becoming obvious to me that an FFL is in my future as I can't afford a herd of pony's to work with. Thanks for posting the pictures, you always make the color pop in the wood.

Keith
 
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