Who invented the moon clip, Colt or Smith?

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From what I have read, it was S&W who came up with the idea during WW1, so that the existing design could be used with a rimless cartridge. But it was for 1/2 moon clips that held three rounds, not the full moons most of us use today.
 
thanks,
I read in Images of America: Smith and Wesson, that Joseph W. invented them...

...but then I read an article in American Rifleman (May 1997, "America's Military Revolvers") which led to some confusion on my part. I read it that the Army had been using the Colt 1909 in 45 colt, and that it was modifed for clips for ACP and was then adopted as the M1917, and that only at that point did the Army give a contract to Smith.

thanks again for the input.
 
Actually the clips of both sizes, half and full moon, were invented and patented by S&W in the 1870'S after the SCHOFIELD was introduced.
It is also most interesting to see why they were invented then. I will not spoil the surprise for you.
 
WIL TERRY said:
Actually the clips of both sizes, half and full moon, were invented and patented by S&W in the 1870'S after the SCHOFIELD was introduced.
It is also most interesting to see why they were invented then. I will not spoil the surprise for you.
Click to expand...


So a cavalryman on horse back could load his revolver all in one go. JF
 
Wil Terry,

I have to point out to you that you are incorrect. I have in my dirty hands a copy of the patent submitted by Joseph H. Wesson for "Cartridge Pack for Revolvers" it was filed on 3 April 1917 and patented on 26 June 1917 and is Patent Number 1,231,106. Also the Model 3 Schofiled was chambered for the .45 Scofield (S&W) which is a RIMMED cartridge and therefore would not need a half or full moon clip. Rimless cartridges didn't really start until the 1890's. Copyies of this or any patent may be obtain from the U. S. Patent Office for a small fee. You just need to know the Patent number. So to answer hilercrednek's question Joseph H. Wesson invented the half and full moon clip during the First World War and assigned his rights to Smith and Wesson. And that is all I have to said about that!
 
THE WIZARD,
GO ASK ROY JINKS TO SEE THE PATENTS FROM THE 1870s ON THE HALF AND FULL MOON CLIPS.
The Wesson boys may well have gotten away with another patent in the early 1900's but the moon clip design was from decades earlier: TAKE IT TO THE BANK !!!
Hells Belles, Bill Ruger got away with patenting the the transfer bar in 1971+ - and it was identical to the transfer bar from an Iver Johnson pistol from the 1880'S. Go look up the old Iver Johnson advertisements for " hammer-the-hammer."
 
WIL TERRY said:
Hells Belles, Bill Ruger got away with patenting the the transfer bar in 1971+ - and it was identical to the transfer bar from an Iver Johnson pistol from the 1880'S. Go look up the old Iver Johnson advertisements for " hammer-the-hammer."
Click to expand...

Wil: you are right about Iver Johnson, and "Hammer The Hammer"

I AM NOT a lawyer, however, I think, unless a patent is renewed, it runs out after so many years. So, Ruger may not have 'gotten away' with anything.

Perhaps some of our breathern admitted to the bar, and up on patent law, can expand on this?
 
According to an article in the 11/07 issue of Combat Handguns, page 76, Joe Wesson invented the half moons in 1917 ish and "In the late 70s,Steve Crawford of Ranch Products developed full moon clips,..." Ihave no idea of the validity of any of this - just reporting what I read in that magazine.

Ken
 
The in's and out's of patent law is too complex to be covered in this venue. In fact, the company that I work for has an office of eight lawyers who's job is to try to make sense of patent law. I do have a letter FROM Roy Jinks, dated june 2001 that to paraphase states that the half/full moon clip AS WE KNOW IT TODAY is cover by J. H. Wesson patent of 1917. Something to do with speed loader versus extraction aid.

As for patenting already patented designs I KNOW YOU CAN"T DO THAT. THOSE EIGHT LAWYERS TOLD ME SO. You CAN patent IMPROVEMENTS to already patented design. I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE DONE IT.
 
Rolin White lost due to his contract w/ S&W. The paid him $0.25 for every revolver w/ a bored through cylinder.

BUT, the contract said White would have to defend the patent. Spent the rest of his life (and $$) in court. He never kept a dime of the money S&W paid him.

So much for patent protection...*sigh*
 
William John Whiting, the Webley designer of the Webley-Fosbery revolver, patented a "Rapid-loading device for revolver" on the 13th September 1901 (Patent 18294). This was a true full-moon clip, and was made in two forms: one for the .455 (rimmed) Fosbery; and the other for the 38 ACP (rimless) Fosbery.

Peter
 
hitecrednek said:
I was wondering which company first came up with the idea for moon clips?

Did they pre-date WWI?

thanks
Click to expand...

While not a half moon or moon clip design, Colt did have a "speed Loader" design for the Early Navy contract Model 1889 New Navy revolvers. It consisted of a wooden block in a leather pouch that held two speed loaders and six individual rounds. A circular metal ring was placed around the six cartridges and a metal plug was inserted into the center and held the cartridges in place. This accessory was available in Colt's 1890 catalog for 25 cents... Of course you could also buy the revolver for $15 too.... Just a little inflation there! :-) Bob
 
hitecrednek said:
I was wondering which company first came up with the idea for moon clips?

Did they pre-date WWI?

thanks
Click to expand...

In addition to the other patents mentioned there is a later type mentioned here, also in 1917;

A VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION - Google Patent Search

As well as making the loading of the cylinder easier the use of half-moon clips made the carrying of cartridges more secure. They were less prone to make a noise and were easier to extricate from a pocket or pouch.

Popov
 
popov said:
In addition to the other patents mentioned there is a later type mentioned here, also in 1917;

A VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATION - Google Patent Search

As well as making the loading of the cylinder easier the use of half-moon clips made the carrying of cartridges more secure. They were less prone to make a noise and were easier to extricate from a pocket or pouch.

Popov
Click to expand...

Very interesting.
I don't believe any of the "interfitting" half moon clips were ever produced.
I have never seen or heard of one. I would imagine that it was found to be unnecessary.
 
I suspect you're right Handejector. I've been collecting all types of cartridge clips for many years and have never come across the interlocking sort. I can't see the benefit of them anyway when full and half moon clips are so simple and practical.

Luckily, many ideas are preserved in patent application that never see the light of day in a fiercely competitive world. Try this oddity for size!

REVOLVER CLIP - Google Patent Search

All the best, Popov
 
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