Baldwin Felts Detective Agency

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Jellybean

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I didn't want to sidetrack the thread about lettering guns but I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a gun lettered to the above agency? They were headquartered in Bluefield WV and were involved, to their dismay, in the Matewan Massacre in 1921. I know they carried S&Ws from some research I did several years ago but didn't know if the company issued the guns or if the individual agents bought their own.

Thanks for any help.
 
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I didn't want to sidetrack the thread about lettering guns but I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a gun lettered to the above agency? They were headquartered in Bluefield WV and were involved, to their dismay, in the Matewan Massacre in 1921. I know they carried S&Ws from some research I did several years ago but didn't know if the company issued the guns or if the individual agents bought their own.

Thanks for any help.
 
Muley Gil, thanks for the info. I did a quick search on the park, found some intersting history about Galax.
 
Jelly have never seen one lettered to B-F but does not mean there not out there. Hope you find one, that would be a great historical item.Lots of interesting stories about them and the area they operated in.
 
Thanks lawnandorder, During my search for information on the gunfight I had received a letter from a woman who had a S&W that belonged to her father, he was one of the Baldwin Felts agents that had been killed at Matewan. The gun was recovered by police in Charleston the week after the gunfight and was returned to his family. In case anyone cares she said it was a .38 special and it sounded like it was a M&P model from her description. The more I read trying to get the information I wanted, which I never did, the more personal the story became.
 
Jelly if you don't have it a good book to get is "Baldwin Felts Detectives INC " BY John A. Velke III. Lots of detail and great photos. Another is "Bloodletting in Applachia" by Howard B. Lee.
 
I have a .38 Special M&P that letters to Bluefield Supply Co., but it shipped in 1940.
 
lawandorder, I have "Bloodletting in Applachia" but don't have "Baldwin Felts Detectives Inc". I've seen it's website and have thought about ordering it but have too many irons in the fire, and not enough coal.
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Thanks KingBee, I think Baldwin Felts was out of business before 1940. However, it is a possibility they ordered from Bluefield Supply while they were in business if both were open at the same time. Thanks for the lead.
 
They were nothing short of thugs and murderers. The agency also burned down a mining camp somewhere out west, Arizona maybe, before the WV coal mine wars.

I believe you bought a copy of Mr. Mooney's book about that period, didn't you?
 
ColbyBruce, Not yet, I'm glad you reminded me of it too. There are a couple of books available but they are above my financial capabilities right now.

I think the incident you are thinking of was at Ludlow, Colorado. Their dignity seems to change with who you talk to. Not only did I get a letter from the woman who's father was a slain agent, I also had one from a 90+ year old woman that lived in Matewan at the time of the gunfight. It is remarkable how two people can relate two completely different versions of the same story and both be right.

I also recently witnessed a long debate involving two groups on opposite sides of an argument. The only thing I learned from it is you can make anything believable, even if you have to create your own reality to do it. But we won't go there.
 
Jelly, that is absolutely true. I wrote my PhD thesis on a riot that took place in Tokyo in 1905 at the conclusion of the Russo-Japanese War. Some historians thought the riot was the beginning of pre-war democracy in Japan. Others thought it the beginning of Japanese imperialism. Japanese historians argued about what it meant for 75 years before I showed up. I tried to get at what had actually happened, and found, as you note, that eyewitness accounts vary. But you can determine things like who got killed, what got destroyed, and what people said at the time as to why they behaved in the ways they did. Still, as to what it means, what the larger significance of the event is, my conclusion was simply that history, for better or for worse, is what we of later generations choose to make of it…

Your research sounds interesting, and I hope you post about it!
 
Onomea, that's interesting. I learned a lot about history while trying to determine if any of my ancestors fought in the Un-Civil War. (Can you guess what I found?) It's amazing how history is distorted to make the tellers always sound like the good guys.

I'm not researching Matewan anymore, that was ten years ago. I was trying to find information about actual gunfights that happened after 1900 using handguns other than single actions. Every thing I read about was during the cowboy era. After watching the movie "Matewan" I wanted to learn more about the battle and a prominent figure involved in it, Sid "Two Gun" Hatfield, Chief of Police for the village of Matewan. Up to that point I had never heard of the book by Howard B. Lee, "Bloodletting In Appalachia" which was quoted by two people who had responded to my inquiry. It became obvious there were two sides to the story and surprisingly the movie took the side of the union miners. My research pretty much ended at that time too, the movie portrayed Sid Hatfield shooting two of the Baldwin-Felts agents near point blank range at the start of battle. The other version was very close to this except he was standing behind them instead of face to face with them.

However as I said, the more I read about it the more personal it became. I wasn't researching it anymore but it still interests me, which led to my post here.

Thanks for listening guys, and I appreciate the responses.
 
Jellybean,My grandfather was machinist for C&O railroad in twenties.He told me stories of Baldwin&Felts used by railroad.He didn't have high opinion of them,but he just left Northern Ireland.Seems like the people with power are same world over.I grew up in Eastern Kentucky coalfields,so I have pretty good idea of the types.
 
I have a .44 Triple Lock that letters as having been shipped to A. C. Felts in March, 1913. According to Roy Jinks, the address in the records is illegible. It's an all original blue 5 inch barrel gun with typical holster wear and is mechanically excellent. In spite of the crude sights on these older hand ejectors, it shoots cloverleaf groups to point of aim at 50 feet with 240 grain reloads.

I've been trying to find out if this gun was taken from Albert C. Felts after he was killed in the Matewan Massacre. The town holds a re-enactment each year and I may go one year and give a little presentation on the gun. Presumably, I'll get a friendlier welcome than old A.C. got more than 80 years ago!
 
Belfastman, Thanks for the input. In his book Howard B. Lee mentioned that they did do some good, like assisting local law enforcement and stopping thefts from railroads. However, having worked in both public and private law enforcement I can imagine some of the things that went on, private law enforcement doesn't have all the "restraints" on them that their public counter parts do. Also I think at that time most of the public law enforcement worked for the coal operators too. Sid Hatfield was a hero to the workers, regardless of his actions, because he sided with them in the face of adversity. Loyalty means a lot to people who don't have the money to buy it. I think one of the reasons I became so interested in this is because at the time I was reading it I was employed as a union security guard at a steel mill and working part time as a police officer. About three years before my research I was in the middle of a labor dispute that lasted 54 days. Actually it never ended, but it was one of the best learning experiences I ever had.

My parents were from Eastern Ky. Do you know where Carter County is?
 
HKSmith, That may be the information I've been looking for! Have you ever tried to get any information from the Charleston Police Dept.? Sid Hatfield was arrested in Charleston a week after the gunfight and had two of the B-F agents revolvers with him. They were confiscated and returned to the families. I don't know if the P.D. would have any records left from that time period but it doesn't hurt to ask.

My short term memory is gone but I think I was just reading where the last of the Baldwin Felts company papers are kept. I'll see if I can find it for you.

Thanks a lot. And if you do find out for sure please let me know if you can.

OOPS, just looked at H.B. LEEs book again. It was the Huntington Police Dept. that confiscated the guns and they were supposed to have been the guns carried Albert and Lee Felts at the time of the gunfight. You might want to check with them instead of Charleston.

Looks like my long term memory isn't doing too well either.
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HKSmith, this isn't what I saw the other day but it may help. It may be referring to the same place as what I read, it was something about the records were owned by a coal museum or something. You might want to go to page 12.

KingBee, you might want to look throgh this yourself for information about your S&W. from Bluefield Supply.



http://craftmemorial.lib.wv.us/ERCALIST.doc
 
Jellybean,Yes I sure do know where Carter is.I grew up in Boyd county which is right by carter.The eastern kentucky coalfields have always been in turmoil.If you haven't ever been to them you cannot imagine the the horrific conditions.These people were little more than slaves,making someone else rich.All they wanted was fair pay for fair work,it didn't happen.
 
Belfastman, we're almost neighbors, sort of. I really never heard much about the Kentucky coal mines. My maternal grandfather had worked in one when he was young and decided he didn't like it, at least not enough to die for it. He worked several jobs and eventually started a blacksmith shop. My paternal grandfather worked at the brick yard in Olive Hill. My dads brother worked at the brick yard until it closed and then he started a body shop behind his house. My moms brother took over Grandpas shop and turned it into a gas station/tire center in Globe. Although they weren't in the coal industry they still had the same problems of making someone else rich. (Except for the one uncle, he was the oppressor, not the oppressed.) My dad left the area in 1953 and moved to Ohio to work in the steel mills.

I found a book written by one of my Dads old teachers that had a lot of Carter County history in it. I gave it to my parents for Christmas in February and they spent weeks looking through it. It had both of their senior class pictures in it and there was one of the shop class with my dad in it.
 
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