I have found a pre model 18, 22 combat masterpiece. It is in better than 95% condition. 4" barrel of course, correct grips-they appear to have courser than normal checkering. 5 screw. Screws are not buggered up. Ser# K 176XXX. No box, no nothing, just the gun. The guy wants $700 for it.

Is that a fair price?

When was it made approx.?

Thanks, John

1953. $700 is definitely too much money for that gun!

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Misty

Cannot tell you if the price is too high but, I will say I would be very tempted, even at that price if it is in great shape! They just do not show up for sale around here very often.

I just paid $500 for a 1964 Model 18-2 that was in LNIB shape with numbered-to-the-gun grips and only the paperwork. No box or tools. Just had to have it as it genuinely looks new.

That serial number makes it an early 1953 gun! I would try to talk him down a little but, I would probably just have to buy it!

Probably dates to 1953.

If I wanted a four-inch K-22 Masterpiece in pretty good shape, I'd jump on that for $700. The price seems a little on the high side compared to the Pre-17s, but four-inch models seem to be in demand across the board and I'd expect to pay a bit more to get one. If I planned on owning the gun for a while, I wouldn't give the price a second thought.

Yeah, I'd say do it.

David Wilson

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David Wilson

I guess if you want something bad enough, price is no object. I can't see myself wanting a pre 18 bad enough to pay $700 for it. Maybe, and that's a big maybe, if it came in the box with papers and tools. Even then I'd have serious doubts about it. But I can also say that I've paid what some people might think is "too much" for things I really wanted. Just my 2¢

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Misty

The bottom line is:
Would you rather have the gun than the amount of $dollars the seller is asking?
I once read somewhere that "Nobody ever payed too much for a gun, They just payed it too soon",
In other words eventually the price will be that high.

I have paid "Too soon" for many firearms, But because of limited availability I didnt want to wait.....

When it comes to rare and hard to find models there are other factors at play besides
Price, availability and condition.
Timing, Positive attitude and level of motivation seems to be the biggest deal makers.

Ego and greed are probably the biggest deal breakers.

I recently had the opportunity to buy a model 18-2 with original magnas in VG cond.
It was 3 hours away and all of the afformentioned factors were at play .
I hesitated, and it was gone.

I just dont seem to bump into M18's here in south FL. It is always,
"I had one but just sold it".

That 18-2 eventually landed in my collection when I posted locally to trade one of my model 17's for a "model 18 ONLY" .
After several tempting offers of firearms other than a Model 18,
By chance the same guy that bought that model 18-2 saw my ad and we traded.

Turns out he wanted a Target masterpiece more than a combat masterpiece anyways.
Sometimes they are just are meant to be yours.....

When it comes to rare and hard to find models there are other factors at play besides
Price, availability and condition.

I agree. I have overpaid for guns before just because they were something I wanted and could never find elsewhere. That's not something I would do with every purchase. For example, somebody might pay $2000 more for a special paint color or stereo system in their car. Not my cup of tea. But since I love guns, I'd gladly pay three or four-hundred dollars more than a gun's worth if, for example, it's that missing no-dash 4" Model 29 in my collection that took me years to find. You get the idea.

That being said, I'm not sure a pre-Model 18 would be rare enough to justify that price unless you couldn't live without it. Check out Fugate Firearms online. I think he had a Pre-18 recently pretty much new in the box for $900 with the target grips. I think $700 is a little high for what you described.

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Aaron Terry

I think that it is a 100-150 too high,maybe even 200 too high.That said, if you want a Model 18 or similar,how many are you going to encounter in Montana?To find one online,means paying the shipping and transfer fee to get your hands on it,so factor that into your decision.

Thanks for all the input. I still want more opinins, please.

So far I am leaning towards buying it. Because I don't see them but every two or three years or so around here. Smiths do go for a slight premium here because I think there just isn't that many in this part of the country as other parts of the country. This is a very nice piece.

Even those of you who advise that it is too high, I appreicate the input. It give me perspective.

One reason I am really looking at buying it is 2 years ago I bought a 17-4 95% for $425 and cleaned it up and replaced the rear sight leaf and sold it for $485. The guy who bought it sold it for $550 and the the guy who bought it sold it for $620 this spring. All were dealers at the local gun show except me. I bought it to upgrade from my 17-3 at 85% condition. I found it didn't shoot all 6 cylinders in the same place. Two of the holes shot off some. That didn't seem to matter to the guy who bought it.

Keep the opinions coming.

Thanks, John

I agree that $700 is a little on the high side, but just a little. I would pay that if I wanted one. You know if you don't buy it you will regret it later.

If it was LNIB with the gold box and accessories, absolutely. For you to replace those items is going to cost $200. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Buy it, they seem to be only going up in price and if you find one you like more later buy it and sell the first one or keep both.

jspick - I looked at that same pistol last week when it came in, there was a 6" with it with replacement grips. If I had the money I would have bought it. If you doubt the price just look at what they are trying to get for them on Gun Broker. There is a gun show this weekend.

I picked up this pre 18 on Gunbroker serial number K147xxx last November for 425.00. 700.00 dollars does seem a little high to me, but if you really want the revolver, go for it.
I do see a fair amount of pre 18's out there for lower prices then 700.00. If your patient, I think you could find one at a lower price.

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OGCA Member.

Ok, I have a question for all of you--by the way thanks for all of the input. I really appricate it.
The question is--muddyboot your picture shows no pins to attach the front sight to the barrel. The one I'm looking at has two pins that hold the front sight to the barrel. I'm sure the two pins are a factory way of doing things but----- tell me about the no pin vs. two pins sight attachment. I need educating..

Thanks, John

I think $700 is outrageous.

But outrageous seems to be the norm, these days.

I bought this one about 5 years ago for $265 and thought it an OK deal but not spectacular.

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No life story has happy end.

If you really want it then buy it. A couple years from now you will forget what you paid for it, but you will be enjoying an awesome gun.

I've seen the two pins you describe on some guns, but don't know why some models have them and some don't.

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OGCA Member.

$700 is not cheap but if you want it and thats the only one you have ever come across then it could be a good. Also look at how much one of the new release model 17's will run you and that might help make up your mind. Or someone might beat you to it and that can solve your problem as well.

As others have said, lots of variables - one person's 95% is another person's 98% and then again it could be less than......
Anyway, box and papers would be a bonus as well, the $700 is definitely on the high end.
If it were me, one thing I'd do before shelling out any $$, assuming the seller is agreeable, is to see if the gun is an original 4" gun, lots of K22 Masterpiece guns have been cut to 4", the problem with the older guns is that the barrel markings are in the same position regardless of the barrel length. $700 for a cut gun is definitely out of range.
Just a thought.

Regards,

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.............SmithNut

Here is a thread I started a while back about a pre-18 I eventually bought.

Pre-18 Price Help--update with pictures

Maybe it will give you a little more insight. By the way, I wound up paying $500 OTD.

It's hit and miss finding something like this without going to one of the auction sites. I put a wanted ad in a GA outdoor forum and got a response on this particular gun a year later.

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Georgia On My Mind

About 2 years ago I found a 18-3 from '75,NIB with papers and all for $375.Three months later ,a 5 screw from '54 that was 98% for $400.Too nice to pass up!Haven't seen another since then.Bide your time ,one will show up and be worth the wait.

How much would you sell it to me for today? Seriously...
$265? or more like $550, then shipping, FFL transfer fees probably would cost me $600 total. Then I risk it being stolen or damaged by some tree hugger at UPS, or the delivery guy stealing it.

A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush......offer $550 cash.

I went back and tried to deal a little today and no dice the guy wouldn't come down any. And after all the input and thinking it over. I decided to pass on the gun being it was over priced.

I think I will wait and keep hoping to find one of the stainless model 17's if I ever get the chance.

Thanks for all the input and advice. You are a great bunch.

John

The stainless 17 evolved into the model 617 full lug ,
kinda looks like a Model 686 with full underlug and rubber grips,

MSRP of $916.00.
BTW....
Smith has taken notice to the sudden demand for their classic Models 17 and 18,
They are back in production complete with hammer Lock.
And an MSRP of...........
$1051 and $1011 respectively.


No beautiful reproduction diamond magna or targets that are supplied with the new .41 Magnum
model 56, 57 or 58 series N frame classics either.....
BUT THEY ARE THE SAME PRICE

The new "Classic" M17 and M18 are supplied with cheap wood laminate grips available on their website for $35.00...
In case you are considering a pair, I recently bought a set.......
If original K magnas fit , finish and quality were a 10....... they rate about a 5 ,
Sorry but IMHO in comparison they are Junk and I still regret not sending them back.

Attention SW corporate Bean counters.......Its called "False Economy".
Saves a few bucks on production costs but dissapoint the customer.
I guess Im crazy to expect nice grips on a .22 handgun that costs over $1000.00?

Well at least they have done the owners of original models the favour of securing their values.
In light of the trigger lock and cheap grips,,,,
That $700 5 screw original doesnt look so bad after all !!!

engine49guy

Yes I know about the 617. Thank you. I have a 10 shot 617.

Smith made a stainless version of the 17. It looks just like the 17, no underlug. I think they were made in the early 90's. I read about them here or the other forum and whoever told about them posted some pictures. They are just like the 17, just stainless. Very pricey too from what I remember.

John

The model you are referring to is the M617 without the underlug barrel, made as a special production run for Ashland Shooters Supply. These were made in both 4" and 6" barrel versions with various TT/TH, Std T/H variations available. Very limited production, the 6" in the ~130 qty. range, the 4" reported to be ~200 qty., but seen less often from my experience.
These were originally shipped with the smooth Combat grips seen on 90's vintage Smiths.

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.............SmithNut

There you go! That is what I NEED! I really NEED one of those! I'd take a 4" or 6" either one, but prefer a 6". I NEED it.

John

A year ago I bought a nice pre-18 combat masterpiece from an estate sale for $250.00.

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S&W Accumulator

I think Smith could sell more of those lugless 617s than their current 17/18 classic blue models.A stainless 18 (618?) would sell well imo.

Thanks Smith Nut,
I had pretty much picked up everything on my wish list....
That was until you dangled those beautiful Stainless model 17's in front of us.

Now I have to Be On The Lookout for yet another
beautiful and rare Smith Handgun.

Actually half the fun of this hobby is searching for then finding them.
AWESOME collection !

Maybe I'm a bit (!?) late to reply, but yes, if S&W offered a new 4" stainless no-lug 617, in Model 18 style like the ones for Ashland Shooters Supply, I would certainly buy one.
That would be my first new gun since 1990.

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anton

Now, I am showing this picture of my Model 617 to show you that I do not have the four inch model.

I, too, am in the hunt for one of the elusive Model 617's sent to Ashland with the four inch barrel and no underlug.

enjoy,
bdGreen

I bought a Pre-18 with original box and tools s/m K197xxx in April 2009 for $525. It even came with the grease paper that is a bit worse for wear. This pistols was in 95% shape. $700 seems quite high.

I collect another style handgun, but I offer the following advice based upon my own desire for a Model 18 and in response to some of the advice I have read here. Yes, $700 is very likely overpriced, but it could be defensible based upon the intended use. If the owner is a collector the price may not be the biggest concern. The condition, box and papers would likely be required to satisfy that buyer. If the gun is to be a shooter, it would certainly be overpriced. It is very close to the price of a new S&W "Classic" Model 18. For shooting, the new handgun would be a much better buy, even with the lock as it would not likely be a self defense handgun.
I would also be very cautious about ratings of 95% and 98% as they are so subjective as to be misleading and "condition is king" to any collector.

I'm looking for a Model 18 that is intended to be shot and I would be very glad to buy one at 85% condition for a more reasonable price. Patience and persistance in searching for a specific firearm is usually the best avenue for success. If you have a shooter - PM me please - pwhphd.

Can't believe this thread is a year old. Seems to me we were discussing this just a couple of months ago.

Anyway, given what has happened to the price of high-condition 5-screw K-22 Masterpieces in the last year, and given that there are far fewer Combat Masterpieces than the standard six-inch/patridge kind, I still think that the $700 price for the original gun was a little elevated but not completely out of line. It's the kind of thing that, if you want it, you'd better take the one available or you may be skunked for years to come.

Not too long ago I finally managed to pick up a high-90s early 22 CM. It came with the original box and tools.



Hard to know how to value this. I traded a not-quite-right 547 (wrong box and grips) and a couple of bucks for it. Maybe $900-1000? At any rate, I'm happy with it. It shoots like a dream, but I can't imagine shooting it every time I head to the range.

A note on the two pins that hold the sight base to the rib. Sometimes the pins were left standing proud, and sometimes they were polished flat to the rib. But they are always there. You may be able to see them with a loupe in raking light. And sometimes a photo will exaggerate contrast and show what the eye cannot see by direct observation.

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David Wilson

The only 4" .22 I've seen for sale lately in Montana was a 75% blue, wrong grips Pre-18 for $550 at a the Bozeman gun show. I wanted one and paid $525 for this kinda beater out of CA.

I bought this pre-15 from the same guy at Bozeman for $500, a bit much, but a Much Nicer revolver!

Some guys like to brag about the $300 "Good Deal" they got and call you an idiot for thinking about $700, but would Never sell for near the same price. There are also some dealers in Greed, who prey on the fact that certain guns are very regional. 4" .22's are scarce near as I can tell...
These came in today, a 1948 .22 and a 1954 .38 but I had to buy both to get the "deal". They'll be waiting on the upcoming KB Ropers!

Boy Oh Boy do I like those k-Frames!!!

i paid 650 for my pre-17. its in 85-90% shape(shooter grade), absolutely no regrets here!

I bought a Pre 18 in about 95% condition from a Forum member several years ago, I paid $350.00. Even taking appreciation into account $700.00 seems rather high. If I were looking to buy, I'd place a wanted ad in the classifieds here on the forum.

It's only money...........if you work you'll make some more next week.

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S&W Accumulator

I think $700 is to high for that gun just like the Model 18-3 that was unfired with the numbered to the gun box and paperwork that I bought for $700 was at the spring Tulsa show. I figured I paid to much but you don't see them every day and this one was pristine. I did after careful inspection determine that it had been fired but probably less the 50 rounds but I was still happy with it and the deal.

I rarely ever over pay for a gun but if it's something that is hard to find or in excellent shape I will usually pay a little more if I have to.

+ 1 million

I would love to know the $ amount to get the owner of the theoretical "$300 Deal" to sell it today. Probably $700. A great deal is just that. It is not the norm.

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Miss Buddies crsides & fat tom

I looked at an M18, 95%, (gun only) the other day that was marked $700. He might have knocked off some, but I have dealt with him before so didn't expect much. That's the first one I have seen in a long time and I would like to have one to go with my K-.22, but I passed.

Not until after a good bit of drooling and thinking, I might add.

Dealers are all different. That pair of K-frames was discounted $500 off the asking price, I just made him an offer for both. The CM .38 asking $550, I offered Five gunshow cash, he knew it was still a good price and he took it.

The last gunshow had a M&P Target .38, 1930's perhaps, asking $850, I offered the $600 I thought it was worth, he countered $650 and I walked away. I've even bought guns from Cabelas long distance at reasonable prices by making an offer after I knew they had it for several months. Both times they said no then called me back to take the offer.



Hearing about $350 M-18's has no bearing on what's happening in Montana or on the internet. And what a guy paid even two years ago for an early S&W .22 has no bearing on what they bring today. I see K-frame .22 as the currently most popular vintage revolvers, bar none. I've seen absolute junk at local shows and online auctions with $550+ price tags.

There are certain things I don't do: Reserve Auction, As Is No Returns or deal with a guy not shipping from an FFL. I have a license and only deal with those who do and acceept returns within a reasonable time frame. I offer the same when I sell.

I try to remind myself that they made tens of thousands of these guns and sooner or later I'll find a good one for a reasonable price and that will be good enough for me.
All that said, $700 is still high!
(Bob, I bought my first M-18 in the box at the Pueblo gunshow about 1976! I wonder what I paid and if it had a dash?)