can I shoot 38 special + P
- Thread starter RD3
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
29aholic
Member
Welcome to the forum
According to S&W all model marked guns are safe for +P.
According to S&W all model marked guns are safe for +P.
bmcgilvray
SWCA Member
You certainly may.
Bit pricey and generally not as satisfactory for target work as less potent .38 Special ammunition but perfectly harmless for a Model 14.
Bit pricey and generally not as satisfactory for target work as less potent .38 Special ammunition but perfectly harmless for a Model 14.
HAWKEYE10
Member
I will agree with Curtis. Plus P ammo is way over rated. Don
Jimmymac46
Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Messages
- 482
- Reaction score
- 85
Yes.....but why? The 14 is a superb 38 special target gun. If you want hot, get a 357 and shoot target, plus P or magnum without any problems or eventual forcing cone damage.
Have I provided you the motivation and impetus to get another gun? I hope so......you won't be sorry.
Have I provided you the motivation and impetus to get another gun? I hope so......you won't be sorry.
Yeah, Jimmy Mac is right. You won't hurt the 14 with +P, but unless you're carrying it in the woods or keeping it beside your bed, or checking it out for one of those activities, there is no reason to use more expensive ammo.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If it says 38 Special on the barrel you can shoot factory +P as this ammo is not loaded beyond industry pressure standards for the caliber.
Like my new, shorter answer?
Like my new, shorter answer?
duckloads
Member
I think that the max pressure for .38 spl is 17,000 psi. The pressure for +P .38 spl is 20,000 psi. That's not exactly a scream of difference. My Speer manual states the velocity for a 158gr lswc is around 800 fps vs. 900 fps for the +P give or take depending on powder.
I shoot both in my M15-4. I have found no difference in accuracy between the two, but the +P makes a bit more noise.
I shoot both in my M15-4. I have found no difference in accuracy between the two, but the +P makes a bit more noise.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Max allowed is 21,500. Current +P is loaded to 18,500 (so why all the fuss?). Current standard ammo is loaded to about 17,000.
So in other words, ALL currently made 38 Special ammo, regardless of the presence or absence of "+P" in the labeling, is loaded well BELOW industry standards for the caliber. This means ANY quality made gun in good condition can safely shoot ANY factory ammo currently being offered for sale.
I continue to be baffled at why this remains an issue. All one need do is look at the specifications for the ammo to realize NOTHING being sold by the major manufacturers is anywhere close to maximum allowable pressure.
The only reason the gun makers make all the warnings about +P (and all reloaded ammo, too) is that they are terrified of lawsuits. They down-load all 38 Special ammo to the point of being a joke. (Current standard load is a 158 at 730 FPS... 730 FPS?????? Some BB guns approach this velocity.) The +P is barely getting the 38 Special up onto one knee (still not quite standing up) and they issue all these warnings to protect themselves. If some numbnuts blows up his rattle-trap old revolver they can say "We told you not use +P in older guns." The fact remains that +P is A VERY MILD LOAD. It's loaded 3,000 PSI below max, for crying out loud!
I have shot a bunch of factory +P in various guns and all exhibited signs of being underpowered. Burn residue along the outside of the cases (there's a word for this) indicating that pressure was so low that the case never sealed to the chamber wall. Empties literally fall from the chambers by inverting the muzzle and shaking the gun. Factory +P is a LOW POWERED round. It's barely a target load. If restricted to factory ammo I would never rely on a 38 for personal defense because the +P is way too weak and wimpy. Where do people get the notion that a 125 bullet at 925 FPS is a hot load? WEAK AND WIMPY!!!! I load my 38s with the same 125 JHP at a clocked 1150 for carry. I have shot many hundreds of these through several guns made 1942-1949 with zero negative effect.
Yet the +P myth continues. I don't get it... I just don't get it.
I should just give up tilting at windmills.
So in other words, ALL currently made 38 Special ammo, regardless of the presence or absence of "+P" in the labeling, is loaded well BELOW industry standards for the caliber. This means ANY quality made gun in good condition can safely shoot ANY factory ammo currently being offered for sale.
I continue to be baffled at why this remains an issue. All one need do is look at the specifications for the ammo to realize NOTHING being sold by the major manufacturers is anywhere close to maximum allowable pressure.
The only reason the gun makers make all the warnings about +P (and all reloaded ammo, too) is that they are terrified of lawsuits. They down-load all 38 Special ammo to the point of being a joke. (Current standard load is a 158 at 730 FPS... 730 FPS?????? Some BB guns approach this velocity.) The +P is barely getting the 38 Special up onto one knee (still not quite standing up) and they issue all these warnings to protect themselves. If some numbnuts blows up his rattle-trap old revolver they can say "We told you not use +P in older guns." The fact remains that +P is A VERY MILD LOAD. It's loaded 3,000 PSI below max, for crying out loud!
I have shot a bunch of factory +P in various guns and all exhibited signs of being underpowered. Burn residue along the outside of the cases (there's a word for this) indicating that pressure was so low that the case never sealed to the chamber wall. Empties literally fall from the chambers by inverting the muzzle and shaking the gun. Factory +P is a LOW POWERED round. It's barely a target load. If restricted to factory ammo I would never rely on a 38 for personal defense because the +P is way too weak and wimpy. Where do people get the notion that a 125 bullet at 925 FPS is a hot load? WEAK AND WIMPY!!!! I load my 38s with the same 125 JHP at a clocked 1150 for carry. I have shot many hundreds of these through several guns made 1942-1949 with zero negative effect.
Yet the +P myth continues. I don't get it... I just don't get it.
I should just give up tilting at windmills.
SP - how many Rolaids did you take between the "shorter answer" and your second post?
roaddog28
Member
As long as Smith and Wesson states on their website warning not to use +P ammo in 38 special on pre model revolvers this issue will keep on going.
It really does not matter the way ammo is loaded. I do agree that for the most part the current ammo in +P will not hurt a Smith and Wesson 38 special revolver as long as the revolver is in good shape. But Smith and Wesson like other gun manufacturers are playing it safe. They don't want some idiot blowing his revolver up and then sueing Smith and Wesson. Ruger had this happen with their Old Model Blackhawks that did not have the transfer safety bar. Idiot consumers did not listen and loaded this revolvers with six rounds in their holsters. The correct way was load five rounds with the empty chamber align with the hammer in the holster. Ruger was sued countless times over this. In 1973, Ruger came out with the new model blackhawk which featured the transfer safety bar. This allowed the revolver to be loaded with all six rounds in the holster without problems.
My point is this, as long as there are consumers out there that don't use their head the gun manufacturers have to protect themselves.
The +P issue will always be there.
roaddog28
Last edited:
OP
RD3
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2009
- Messages
- 69
- Reaction score
- 0
duckloads
Member
SAAMI pressure specs
This is where I got my SAAMI data.
the moral of the story is that there is not much difference between std and +P .38 spl ammo.
This is where I got my SAAMI data.
the moral of the story is that there is not much difference between std and +P .38 spl ammo.
shawn mccarver
SWCA Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2005
- Messages
- 7,989
- Reaction score
- 7,037
Yurko
US Veteran
SP
All the major gun manufacturers have +P warnings on their sites & in their literature.
That's a LOT of windmills to tilt. Please carry on! Your musings are not only informative,
they're a pleasure to read. It's obvious that they're well thought-out.
Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
All the major gun manufacturers have +P warnings on their sites & in their literature.
That's a LOT of windmills to tilt. Please carry on! Your musings are not only informative,
they're a pleasure to read. It's obvious that they're well thought-out.
Thanks for sharing with the rest of us.
Charles
Member
Hear, hear!
What I find telling is that the same basic K frame is available in 9mm and .357, both 30K+ cartridges. The .38 Special loads are as low as they are to protect owners of old, poorly made off-brand pieces of junk. Or more specifically, to protect the manufacturers from being sued by the owners of said revolvers.
Funny how you never hear people asking if it's ok to shoot +P in their 547's, isn't it?
SP you ain't crazy.
stiab
US Veteran
Your numbers do not agree with those posted by duckloads. He gave us a source for his, and it checks out. Are you willing to reveal the source for your numbers? Thanks...
stiab
US Veteran
Apparently that is because the 547 was not the standard .38 Special frame and cylinder. Supica in the Standard Catalog states that after the 547 production ended, S&W intended to introduce the same gun in a .357 variant, called the 547-M, "in an effort to use up existing 547 frames."
Charles
Member
I always assumed that was just a marking issue, but I could very easily be wrong. My point is, though, that the cylinders are essentially the same size. Is it reasonable to assume that the 9mm and .357 cylinders are twice as strong as the .38's?
Cruiser RN
Member
Sure you can.Unless it is a personal protection load the question is why?+P ammo for target work can get expensive quickly.I have a model 640 357 magnum where I can shoot 38 special,+P,or Magnum with no worriesI say time to buy another gun.....Enjoy.....Mike
