Help

k3v1nm · #1 07-08-2010, 06:18 PM

First post on here and I need some help. I have in my possession a 38 special M13. It has the etching on the top strap 'lightweight revolver M13' and has all the other correct markings except for the Property of US Air Force on the back strap. It also does not have a C in front of the serial number that I can tell. This may be a forged gun but I know that it has had one owner for at least 20 year (me) and I have not altered it.

Thanks for any help.....
Kevin

Friday....have taken more pictures. The mystery continues. It looks like the barrel was changed out as it does not match the gun. Have posted pics of the backstrap as well. Is it possible that it was a 357 and someone placed a 38 special barrel on it? Didnt the original barrels commonly crack?

The etching on top does look original though. Found a serial number on the back of the wheel. C294***

rockhammer · #2 07-08-2010, 06:30 PM

Cool gun! Too bad about those big gouges on the side plate though.

woodsltc · #3 07-08-2010, 06:50 PM

Look very closely..............does it say M-12 or M-13.

There were no "light weight" M-13's to the best of my knowledge. But, there was a M-12 lightweight that was made for the Air Force and then production was stopped due to problems.

Someone else will be along soon that is more informed than me about the problems with the Air Force M-12's.

BTW .... even with the problems an Air Force M-12 could be quite valuable!!!

kwill1911 · #4 07-08-2010, 07:27 PM

Yes, that appears to be a USAF Aircrewman. It should have "Property of US Air Force" on the back strap. If you can share the serial number we can tell you more about it.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

k3v1nm · #5 07-08-2010, 09:21 PM

Yes, the gun says M13 on the top strap however it does not have "property of US Air Force" on the back strap. I will get the serial number posted (not with the gun right now). I do know that, supposedly most of the Aircrewmans started with a C in the serial number but this one does not look like it has this. It is quite perplexing.

Ga Johnny · #6 07-08-2010, 10:35 PM

I think in SW terms it's a model 12, the AF referred to them as model 13...or M13

"however it does not have "property of US Air Force" on the back strap"

Without that you may be right it could be forged

hsguy · #7 07-09-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ga Johnny

I think in SW terms it's a model 12, the AF referred to them as model 13...or M13

"however it does not have "property of US Air Force" on the back strap"

Without that you may be right it could be forged

Legitimate M13's are often seen with the back strap markings removed because when they "walked" off the base the person who took it did not want government markings on the gun. The markings were easy to remove from the alloy frame, the top strap markings don't seem to have been removed as often but they were also a sure indication of a government gun as I have never heard of a civilian gun being so marked.

ImprovedModel56Fan · #8 07-09-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hsguy

The markings were easy to remove from the alloy frame, the top strap markings don't seem to have been removed as often but they were also a sure indication of a government gun as I have never heard of a civilian gun being so marked.

Actually, I believe that I recall seeing photos of civilian guns with markings added to the top strap as part of the fraud. They were probably on this web site.

hsguy · #9 07-09-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Model520Fan

Actually, I believe that I recall seeing photos of civilian guns with markings added to the top strap as part of the fraud. They were probably on this web site.

You are correct about added markings to fake the gun, my point was that the markings that were applied to the topstrap of legitimate Aircrew guns seem to be less often removed than the backstrap markings and non-government guns were not sold with these markings to the public. There is a cottage industry of applying these markings to civilian guns so they can be sold as M13's, the good thing is the faked markings are often done incorrectly giving the collector a method to help determine if a gun is a fake. If you letter an Aircrewman Roy will confirm if the gun with the serial number supplied shipped to the AF but will not confirm that your gun is legitimate due to the number of fakes. If you run across an M13 for sale it better have an ironclad provenance or be blessed by an advanced collector of such guns before you pay big bucks for it.

k3v1nm · #10 07-09-2010, 03:43 PM

Here are a couple more pics...
kevin

hsguy · #11 07-09-2010, 04:02 PM

The backstrap looks typical of guns that were scrubbed to remove the AF markings.

Don Dineen · #12 07-29-2011, 12:54 AM

My book shows a S&W M56 - 2", built 15,205 in 1963 only. "U.S." only on backstrap. Big prices up to $7,500 (NIB). I suspect any on the market were diverted from plane crews. Our aircrews carried S&W M15 Combat masterpieces up to the first gulf war. My brother in law carried one into Germany, where it was changed to the M9 - 9mm. When they flew into the active war zone they had 9mm and M16 rifles. These were on the hospital planes.

Don Dineen · #13 07-29-2011, 12:58 AM

My model 12 looks like it was held in reserve stock at a metro department. All the papers, no cleaning rod and brush. An aggravation is holsters for the skinny tube models are hard to find. The lugged barrel K's and L-frames get holsters without the need for a custom being made to really fit.

crsides · #14 07-29-2011, 10:08 AM

Stick a magnet to the cylinder. If it's steel, you have a nice carry gun. If not, its aluminum and I wouldn't shoot it at all, though somebody might tell you they shot 30,000 rounds of +P in theirs. The scratches and the buffed back strap means you don't have to handle it with kid gloves, so you can enjoy your gun.

Charlie

Mack · #15 07-29-2011, 10:55 AM

Search is your friend, here are a few other threads on the M13, note that in the first link post #8 member opoefc has a SN database on some of the AF guns, I would contact him.

M13 Aircrewman
Questions on a Pre-model 12 - Aircrewman??
Is This a Genuine M13 Aircrewman?

BUFF · #16 07-30-2011, 05:06 AM

"My book shows a S&W M56 - 2", built 15,205 in 1963 only. "U.S." only on backstrap. Big prices up to $7,500 (NIB). I suspect any on the market were diverted from plane crews. Our aircrews carried S&W M15 Combat masterpieces up to the first gulf war. My brother in law carried one into Germany, where it was changed to the M9 - 9mm. When they flew into the active war zone they had 9mm and M16 rifles. These were on the hospital planes."

S&W's Model 56 is an entirely different gun than we are talking about here. The M-56 is a 2 inch barreled, square butt steel frame K frame revolver made with adjustable sights, as opposed to the fixed sights of the Air Force-designated "REVOLVER, LIGHTWEIGHT, M13" we are discussing in this thread. Known in literature as the "Model 56 KTX-38", the gun has smooth grip straps, instead of grooved as are most S&W target sighted revolvers, and the top of the rear sight's body is matte, like Highway Patrolman, instead of grooved. Nahas and Supica say that this gun, the M-56, lead to the development of the civilian-oriented 2 inch Model 15-2 in 1961. Before that, the Combat Masterpiece generally sported a 4 inch barrel.