I have a friend who has been shooting for at least 35 years, has at least 40 pistols who was telling me his 25-2 is very pickey about the ammo that goes through it. I was looking into finding one, but although he liked his, he didn't care for it that much. He said the only ammo it liked was a lower grain wadcutter, shooting typical ball it was terrible. Having seen him shoot consistant 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards, it had me wondering. From what I have been reading on these and other forums, the 25-2 was a great gun and very accurate too, but I haven't seen much mentioned about the ammo used.

What has been your experience?

My most accurate load for my 25-2 was with .452 dia. 230 gr. round nose lead in auto rim brass. I used bullseye powder. I have never fired jacketed bullets in it.

2.5 @ 50 yards is impressive.

I have shot several 25-2's over the years and have never had problems with accuracy. I have shot everything from 185 gr. lead swc to 235 gr. wc and even with older eyes and not so steady hands, I can still maintain 90% 10's off hand at 25 yds.. I don't recall ever using ball ammo on paper with a 25-2 and I don't recall shooting it at 50 yds. either. However, I thoroughly enjoy the 25-2, I probably would use a 1911 type pistol for competition, but for pure fun I always choose the 25-2. At least that is my opinion. Take care,
Steve.

There seems to be a good bit of variation with these guns. I had a 25-2 that I set up for practical revolver competition, like steel plate shooting and IDPA. It only liked .454" bullets and once I found a good source for 200g RNs of that diameter and a way to load them consistently, it shot quite well. I competed with it for almost 3 years.

I have one now that wears a tapered, Model of 1950 barrel and it shoots OK but my .452" plated bullets don't match the .455"-.456" chamber mouths it's cylinder has. Since I don't compete any more and I'm just plinking at plates it's good enough for my purposes. If I wanted it to shoot better I think I would have to go to .454" cast bullets again.

Dave

PS: These comments don't apply to the newer 625s, or for that matter all the 25-2s out there.

__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

I've owned and shot a Mod. 25-2 since the early 70's. I own several Mod 25's in different dash numbers and I've never experienced the throat size problems occasionally mentioned by others.

The groves are shallower on the 25's than other calibers and they do require some experimenting to find the bullet diameter and shape the gun likes best.

If you reload your own it is a model and caliber to own... If you cast and size your own bullets all the better...

One of my favorite guns S&W should have made in a 5 inch, too.....

JMHO

My only 25-2 shoots lights out with all ammo so I guess I got lucky.

25-2 with 6.5 inch barrel and Kurac custom Maple grips

I had 6 of them once, all 25-2's, 1 with a 6 inch barrel, the others were 6-1/2 inchers.

They all shot better or worse with different ammunition. A couple shot well with about anything, I only found a few loads a couple others liked. None shot badly, mind you, they just each had preferences.

The loading that all of them shot very well was W-W Super Match 185 grain Full Metal Case, catalog number X45AWCP. It was kind of pricey, but I traded into a couple of cases of it and still have one partial case left.

I can't (then or now) shoot well enough hand-held to really know, but I was playing with a Ransom Rest at the time and it sure shot better than I ever will.

I recently bought a Ransom Rest and several forms including N frame. When I get time I will try my 25-2 out with different loads.

It's one of my favorite guns so I shoot it a lot. My guess is it shoots about anything better than I can.

I have never measured the cylinder. It's a fine gun.

TDC I couldn't agree more. In fact, I liked the idea so much I found a "non-collector" grade Model of 1955 and had it made into a 5"



Since the picture was taken I've had the Patridge front made into a ramp and the gun now wears an old, hand checkered set of Herritt's Shooting Stars. Oh, and I put a standard width trigger on for DA work.

Dave

__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

I'm in about the same position, My 25-2 has cylinder throats .455" and so far (other than Win 230 ball) I haven't found a load that seems to group that great. I've been getting 2.5 to 3.5" groups at 25 yards (Factory Ball gets about 1.5"). I have read with this large of cylinder throat's .454" bullets work well. I have obtained some 200 gr. .454 LRNFP bullets, 45 colt with small crimp groove, to work with. Any recommendations for powder/load? My go to powders are 231, Tightgroup, & WST for 45 acp. I intend to use with regular 45 acp brass with moon-clips.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Both my model of 1950 .45 ACP and a 25-5 have large throats in .456 or greater range. I have not shot the .45 Colt yet and only played around with the 1950, so can't really tell they shoot. I do have some concerns about their accuracy.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

A few years ago I was at a good friends shop just after he purchased a large collection from a family who's Grandfather had passed. They didn't know, or care, what they had, they just wanted money. Guns, tools, brass, bullets and many accessories.
Being on the spot at the right time I kind of got the pick of the litter which was a pristine 25-2, I think I paid $400 as a friend and quick sale for the owner to start recouping funds.
This guy was a serious gun crank at one time, he obviously cared a great deal for his guns and loads as many had been customised. However he seemed to have started slipping as some of the things that were bought made no sense, in particular a M38 that he had cobbled a 6" barrel onto, why? Don't know, no one will, it was really odd looking, not original but fairly well done.
The M25-2 I bought came with a tag that read 'Use Rem AR brass and Rem 185g jhp only'. That was odd, and when I got it home I found that the forcing cone had been cut to a certain angle, all the chambers where numbered 1 - 6 and it had some excellent trigger work done on it. That is where the work had stopped as it honestly doesn't look like it has been fired at all. As I said, much of the stuff in this collection was great, some was out in La-la land.
Also with it I got 500 old Remington AR brass all in boxes of 50, all primed and prepped, trimmed and expanded for the 1K Rem 185g jhp's that I also got. These are old components, the brass is in the old green/yellow Remington boxes and bullets are in a bulk shipped box from Remington. All that fro $400 was a good deal.
Chamber throats seem to measure a consistent .453 or so, but with just an electronic caliper it's hard to tell.
Sadly, I haven't had time to take it out and fire it, so I can't say what it will do yet, but the custom work meant something to the old guy at one time. Too bad it didn't mean anything to those who ended up with it.
RD

__________________
Got a Phd from Hard Knocks U

I load my own ammo and cast my own bullets but as I indicated on my post I've not had the throat problem you guys have.

The first thing I'd do is slug the barrel to determine how much variation there is between the throats and then provide an accurate barrel size as a comparative reference.

You have several options you may want to investigate to consider an attempt to remedy the problem.

Once you find a bullet diameter you believe will be suitable for your gun, find a friend or company who cast their own bullets. They may have bullet sizer dies ranging from .451 up to .455. If they are knowledgeable about casting they should also have several alloy combination's for you to experiment with. Alloy is important because its hardness or softness can be a major factor in each individual bullets performance and many times it can compensate for throat problems, especially something like you describe with your Mod. 25's.

Don't concern yourself with fine tuning normal reloading processes (powder, primers, etc) until you find a lead bullet/alloy your gun seems to like to digest with reasonable accuracy.

You may have some extra work cut out for you but everything I mentioned should be performed on every handgun anyway, IMO.

I don't know if the mods here will permit the mention of another website. They can eliminate this address if it isn't permitted, but another board I'm a member of, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ has some of the most knowledgeable people in the world with issues just like yours. Do a search on that website for your Mod 25 problem and you may find many solutions from trained metallurgists and others with more than a passing interest in bullet casting, handloading and shooting....

Your Mod. 25's are wonderful guns and I hope you can enjoy them as much as I do....

Hope this helps ya.....

I have not cast a bullet in more than 20 years. But, I still have a Lyman melting pot still in the box from that time frame. I am planning on casting again when I retire, so I can shoot more and with less financial strain. Thanks for the info. It looks like a very good place to find out more about bullet technology. In the past, I was casting for quantity for .38 Special and .44 magnums. I used to shoot a lot more than today.

__________________
Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I am cheap but don't cast my bullets. I buy in bulk from the Mo Bullet Co.

I haven't measured my 25-2 cylinders and I don't know if MBC will oversize some .45's.

Very nice, looks like Ivory. I hope mine turn out that nice.

I love reading "Model 25-2 accuracy threads."

There seem to be two camps on these guns. One says their gun shoots fine, and sometimes they mention it favors ball, or cast semi-wadcutters, or whatever. The other camp claims the guns they have shot and been around either were mediocre shooters, or worse.

I will say two things:
1. I have never seen a 25-2 that would outshoot a good 44 Magnum, and admittedly most S&W 44 Magnums shoot pretty good. Ditto a 1950 .44 Target. Never saw a 25-2 that would keep up with one.
2. I have never fired a 25-2 (in stock configuration) that I thought shot well enough to be considered a "target gun."

Other than that, I will sit back and watch for the latest intelligence.

Wow! Well I have never slugged mine, but I did win a pistol league with it. The league was shot at various distances indoors at a max of 50 feet. I shot some amazingly tight groups that year, all with light loads of Clays under 200 grain Rainier plated (I know, blasphemy!) boolets in .45 acp brass in moon clips. I got several offers to buy that gun, but it's not for sale!

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Member MVGCA, OGCA, NRA Life

Howdy,
I came here looking for info on the expectations of a 25-2.
I have had a couple over the years but mostly just to bang away at pins or plates and I never put forth much effort to see what one would do.
I recently picked up another one. I hope to keep this one and not let it get away as I did the others.
It came in as almost unused other than being dropped. The damage was explained by the seller and other than the grips and rear sight blade it is pretty nice.
I picked it up and had ten rounds each, of four different bullets, loaded with 4.5 WW231, WW primers and mixed ACP brass. Factory half moon clips were used.
I headed for the bulls eye range at Arnold Rifle and Pistol Club. I set up at the 25 yard line but I had the wife's car and forgot to load the shooting bags. All groups were fired with fore arms resting on the presentation case.I think I left a little on the table.
Here is the gun.

Throats measured around .457 evenly around the cylinder.

Having read this thread and with the throats running large I was surprised to see it did not like WW 230 jacketed bullets. It shot them into a 4" group with 9 of the ten going into 3 1/16" CTC.

I switched to a 230 grain, hard cast and I wont even post the results. It is too good of bullet. It shoots great in my autos but this gun would not shoot them.
Next up was the Magnus #808. It is a swaged 185 grain bullet.It was loaded to a OAL of 1.232 and all ten went into 1 3/4" This load shows potential and I need to tweak on it and see what might be left.
It is a all X-ring group if centered and will suit me if I don't find anything better. Seems odd that a .452 185 grain bullet worked this well in a gun with large throats. It is a soft almost flat base bullet.

Last was the Delta 185 grain swaged hollow point. I like these and have had good luck with them but they fell behind the #808. They do hold promise and I might mess with powder and OAL and see if they don't come around. Ten shot went in to 3 1/2" With eight of them a little under two inches.I have the ability to let one or two get away from time to time. It could have been me.
That's it for now. I'll try to post what ever I try here in the future. I want to try Magnus #801@185 grain and I want to run some 152-155 grain bullets.
What I learned so far seems to show my gun prefers a softer or possibly a lighter bullet. My bet is on the softer bullet.
I hope this is a help to some one.
Thanks
Mike
Addition Nov 21,11: Magnus bullets think the bullets I used to shoot the 1 3/4" group are #811.
I went to re-order #808 and noticed a different looking bullet in the Magnus ad. The box I used are marked #808 swaged 185 grain .452 dia but in fact look to be #811. Go Figure. Bullet styles can be viewed at magnusbullets.com

Yes, it does seem odd, but those guns are just plain odd themselves. That is one of the best groups I have ever seen attributed to Model 25/1955. I don't think you left too much on the table when you shot that one.

Over the years I have been around maybe close to a dozen of those guns. The really odd thing to me is that I've seen 1955s that shot ball fairly well but not lead, others that shot lead wadcutters but not ball, and some that just wouldn't shoot anything. No apparent consistency. Model 29s don't seem to be erratic like that, nor do 24s, 27s, 57s, or any other model that comes to mind. They're cantankerous guns, as far as I am concerned. My 1955s are probably the only S&Ws I ever owned that made me think I needed a Ransom rest.

Let us know how the tweaking goes.

Hi Folks,
I have been in touch with Magnus this morning and it has been determined that the bullet I used is in fact a #811 not an #808.
They have been around here for a while but for what ever reason have proven to be Magnus #811 185 grain .45 at .452.
As soon as we get a little better weather I will up grade the post with some different bullets/loads.
Thanks
Mike
Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

I'll also add to the opinion that the 25-2 guns are fickle.

I have two of them. One 5 screw & one 3 screw. Both have the humongous cylinder throats. Neither will shoot any lead bullet accurately. I've tried cast & swaged from .451 to .455 with a wide range of loads in both ACP & AR brass. I've also tried quite a few bullets intended for the .45 Colt. I don't get groups with any of them. I get shotgun patterns.

Just had a range session with them this past Sunday. Tested 230 grain Zero brand FMJ bullet with 6.0 grains Unique in AR brass. Spectacular results. Groups rival my K22 & K38 except with bigger holes.

My two guns will only shoot FJM accurately. Your milage may very.

On the other hand, my 3, 625-3's shoot anything you put in them well. I'm beginning to think you could shoot rocks in them and still get great groups.

Howdy,
I just rolled in from the range. I have been out with several different loads.
I am not going to post pictures of them all as most have been 3-4" @25 yards
I have tried Magnus bullets 185 grain,hard cast #801. Out of my auto they shoot great but no amount of adjustment seems to make them want to shoot in the 25-2 with 231 powder.
Here is where things get weird. I have been wanting to shoot some 155 grain bullets loaded backwards. Think about it. A dart has the weight forward and a tail to stabilize itself. A lot of airplanes are like that.
Also, a full wadcutter front profile is known to shoot.
I took delivery of some 155 grain bullets and tested them in various conventional loads and was not impressed with them in the 25-2. Here is what I came up with.

What happens when you load these and shoot them out of the 25-2?

Now this is a five shot group at 25 yards shot at the 67 gun club range. I prefer to shoot ten shot groups. I have loaded so much for this gun lately that won't shoot that I have started to shoot five shot groups until I come up with something that shows promise.
I will post a ten shot group soon.
This load is a Magnus 155 grain .45 @.452 loaded backwards over 4.5 grains of WW231 and a WW primer. OAL is .965 and factory crimp die crimped to .473.
They are slow to reload in the gun w/ moon clips.
I don't know how they will hold up at 50 yards? I will look in to that later on.
I can't think of a better load for 25 yard bullseye. If I can get to where I can drop a moon clip of these in the gun I'll look forward to shooting a little PPC with them next year.
This is a mild load and shows no sign of leading. I was worried about the tail in the case cooking down. Not a problem.
I'll keep you posted.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Mike

Mike:
When you load for the 25-2 do you taper crimp or roll crimp?

Dick

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Interesting theory and results. Keep us posted. I may have to give this a try with some H&G #68s. They are 200-205 gr., but your principle may still apply. At worst it will be a fun experiment.

Howdy,
Dick, I use a Lee factory crimp die.
Also, I use a Merit eye piece when I shoot groups. Might not mean much to the younger guys, but it helps me a lot.
Just goes to show you how odd the 25-2 can be. The best shooting load I have come across so far is about the last thing a person would try. Go figure?
I start in cooking for Christmas tomorrow and I doubt that I get any range time in anytime soon. When I do I'll see what kind of ten shot group it will do.
Thanks
Mike

My experience is that it doesn't matter what type of bullet you use. When a .451 or .452 bullet is guided by a .458 throat it will not be accurate or consistent.

No combination of powder type or amount is going to obturate a .452 bullet in a .458 throat. No matter what the lead brinell rating is. I tried, it won't work. Not reliably anyway and when I am shooting a target revolver I think reliable, accurate and consistent is the goal.

I got tired of needing the Lewis Lead Remover after every 6 rounds.

Hi Denny Crane,
My throats are .457 across the board. It has taken a little looking but I have two loads that shoot very good at 25 yards, both .452 bullets. One hard cast one soft swaged.
I read all the opinions of hard vs. soft bullets, .454 bullets and "Better with ball ammo". I wanted to see what it took to get the 25-2 to deliver like a K/L frame and I'm satisfied now that this is a reasonable goal.
I have been running around 50 rounds at a time while testing and have no leading. I doubt that I have exceeded 900 FPS but may have on some of the 155 grain loads.
I don't know that any of what I have found will work for others, but don't give up looking for a load due to a large throat size.
Mike

How are you measuring your throats? If you can shoot .452 lead bullets at ANY velocity/brinell rating with no leading I have to think your throats are not as big as you think?

Mine (.458) is a leaded up mess no matter what lead/powder combination with .452 bullets. After only one round you can see the leading. It only makes sense that the hot gases are blowing by the bullet in the throat. I tried fast/slow powders, fast/slow velocities. No combination would obturate a .452 lead bullet.

.451 jacketed bullets avoid the leading but accuracy is even worse. (In Ransom Rest)

I missed out on a like new .453 cylinder on GB the other day for about $80. Da**

Hi DC,
I measure the widest part best I can with a caliper. I keep it as square as I can and expect I'm close to correct. You can see how I do it in the pictures.
I don't know that I am driving any of them hard enough to lead. I shot some of the 155s w/ 6.0 231 but they are a good hard cast bullet and I would guess that load around 950-1000 fps.
I looked it over pretty good today because of the backwards bullets. I was half expecting them to melt or act funny. After 40 rounds of various loads I'd have to call the leading minor if any.
Are you talking barrel leading? The throats are more messy than the barrel but nothing to worry about. They do show more than the barrel which shows little or nothing. There is nothing in either that wont easily brush out.
Thanks
Mike

Sir, I've had only one 25-2, so I wouldn't generalize too much from that, but accuracy was not that particular gun's long suit. It shot "just OK" with factory hardball and poorly with cast-bullet handloads that grouped well in my 1911.

I've had much better accuracy from other Smiths of that same era chambered in .22, .38, .357, or .44.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

__________________
Wishin' don't make it so.

I've had 2 of them & neither would shoot to my expectations . In retrospect maybe I should of tried more things .
Used to be a 2700 shooter named Marty " Babe " Magnan . He only shot S&W revolvers . He made his own grips , cast his own bullets etc . He used to shoot 2600+ regularly . He wore out a Ransom rest testing loads in his 25 . He claimed that anything softer than Linotype would not work . He used an H&G 78 mold , Linotype & would seat bullets deep enough to crimp on the front driving band . Liked Rem 45AR brass , Fed primers. Originally used Dupont 5066 ( no longer made ) , then Win 452AA ( long gone ) , then Scott 453 ( another no longer made ) . He said he got good results with 4.6 W231 . Last I knew he'd changed to 4.6 Green Dot for 50yds & 4.3 Green Dot for 25yds . He would adjust charge weight with each powder lot until he got 825 to 850 fps . Never would tell what he sized to . H&G 78 mold usually drops at 215gr with # 2 alloy & around 204gr with straight Linotype . He also modified a mold to drop @ 175gr ( Linotype ) for 25yd timed / rapid fire as recovery time was less with lighter slugs . Pretty sure this was done by reducing thickness of bullets base . Any way a little history & it sure worked for him . Might be worth a try .

Wow! Either "Babe" is now known as "boatbum101" or boatbum has a memory like an old dog! I can't remember my own load stats without pencil and paper let alone another guys with that kind of detail!

Mike,

It's hard enough to take accurate throat measurements with the proper tools (example Amazon.com: Starrett S831EZ Small Hole Gauges Set (4 Pieces ): Industrial & Scientific ) and near impossible using the calipers.

Try this. First clean the cylinder really good using a stiff bronze brush and any cleaner such as Hoppes #9. You can even chuck the brush in your drill as long as you only use it on the cylinder. There can be some really hard deposits of carbon/lead.

When satisfied all holes are clean try dropping a .452 lead bullet through the holes. Try a .451. Do they fall through with only gravity? .451 does but the .452 doesn't? Have to push it just a little with a rod?

If the .452 falls through with gravity only then the throats are without doubt oversized.

If you are not seeing leading in the first 1-2" of the bore after shooting .452 lead bullets the odds are your throats are not grossly oversized.

Hi folks,
Thanks Boatbum, looks like interesting data. The two loads I have found best in my 25 are right near the 4.6 231, although one is a soft bullet.
I think I'm done looking and have found what I needed to enjoy the 25-2.
My next trip to the range will be to shoot a ten shot group of the backwards loaded 155 grain bullets. In the event they prove the first five shot group to be a fluke I will post the results. I thank you all for sharing and allowing me to share my findings with you.
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Mike

I have a 25-2 that I bought in essentially unfired condition that has cylinder throats in the .457 range. I have settled on two loads. The first is with Mt. Baldy 270 grain 45 SAA, BH of 11, 5.5 grains of Unique. This is approx 840 fps and I have a ten shot group at 25 yards of 1 7/8". The hunting load is the same bullet sold by Montana Bullet works, BH of 15, 5.9 grains of Universal (Clays), for approx. 900 fps. Both bullets sized .453. This groups 10 in 2". These bullets sized .454 do not shoot as well. The bore in my gun measures .425. Bryan Pearce in Handloader has recommended this particular bullet for guns with oversize throats. I have also read recommendations for using soft swaged bullets but haven't tried that yet. These loads are very easy going and fun to shoot. The loads have all been in Remington 45 AR brass with federal primers.

Mike, I was looking at your picture again and I remember ONE time I got a group like that using the old short Keith design bullet (the version I was using was an H&G #502) and some charge or other of WW 231. I was so excited I fired another group and it was terrible, so I just attributed that to poor shooting on my part owing to the giddiness of actually having a 1955 print a decent target! I put the gun and loads away and tried it again next week. Results: 4 in a nice group and one flier out a couple inches. Another group - same thing. Another - same thing, maybe with 2 fliers, I can't recall. So I guessed that that one lonely group was just a fluke and I put the gun and shells away, marked myself done with ever trying to get a 1955 to shoot that well again, and haven't bothered either one since then.

I did make up a new front sight for the gun, to correct a POA-POI problem (so I wouldn't have to change out the rear blade and thus destroy the old-style adjusting screw). It still needs 0.010" ground off the top. Just a bit too tall.

I have never seen an S&W revolver that was more of a pain in the neck than a 1955, but I am told the early production versions of the Model 647s were right up there with them. I have never owned one of those. 1955s would be great guns if they would just shoot like that picture of yours.

Um.... if any of you frustrated guys want to part with your poor shooting 25-2's for an appropriate price I'm in the market... If you can't find a useful loading formula to make them shoot they are of little value to some of you...

Please e-mail or PM a description and any factory or other accessories included, as well as your best price...

Thanks!

__________________
Terry

Fatten a swaged bullet some with a few taps on the nose with a hammer. Slug the throats as usual.

Howdy,
Well,I'd like to report that the 155 grain load held up over ten shots.
I got out this morning and it is OK. Just OK.
Seven of the ten looked like the five shot group posted earlier, but three opened it up to near 2 3/4" inch. I felt like I was shooting better than that.
Also, I had a little extra ammo with me and shot five at 50 from a rest and was unable to hold the black on a fifty yard bullseye target with them. Heck, I can hold in the black at fifty one handed standing with a good load and gun.
They don't hold up at fifty and are just OK at 25.
I think the swaged bullet load is a better load as it is consistent 1 3/4"- 2" load at 25.
Lesson learned, I should not let five rounds get my hopes up.
I might bump em' up a little and and see what happens.
Thanks and sorry, I really wanted these to work.
Mike

On the 25-2 as a novice here, is there an advantage of the 45 acp over the 45 auto rim other than availability of brass. I have a 625 of 1989 or whatever that was in 4 inch, I shoot some but came across a 4 inch 25-2 that has super glue on it when I put it in my hands. It just feels good.

I think not, but like everything else to do with 25s/1955s, there is a legion of people who would argue about that.

I always found I did my best shooting with Auto-Rims, or, if the gun headspaces properly (note that properly word) on ACP cases, I avoided the use of full- and half-moon clips. Accuracy always seems to suffer when the clips are introduced.

I'd prefer to do all of my shooting with Auto-Rim brass, but the stuff is expensive.

I have a 25-2 and never shot anything but a 200 gr. cast wadcutter, powered by 4.0 gr. Bullseye. In a Ransom rest, the gun shot one ragged 5 shot hole @ 50 Ft. consistently. I always used Auto Rim cases for competition. At that time I was competing in bullseye and few guys from my club purchased Model 25s after they saw what mine could do.

I had the wadcutter mold made up by a company in Texas.

i today tried some AR loads of mine....200gr SWC 6.5gr unique...was just wackin' steel they seem to shoot better the ACP and moons with the same load....i need to put them on paper to really know for sure....anyway i like shootin' the 625 and 25-2 with AR'S...

I never heard of that; thanks for the tip. I'll try mine without the clips when I get back to work.
Bob

Only problem with using ACP brass without moon clips is the extraction. Keep a pencil handy to poke out any stubborn cases, but they usually can be lifted out with the fingernails. The advantage of the moon clips is the rapid reloading for various types of action shooting, I have heard some say you can load the AR cases up a lot hotter, but the case strength is the same.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I too only use auto rim brass in my 25-2. I have had good luck with a 30's era Geo. Hensley mold #68 200 grain semi wadcutter. The group in the pic was fired at 25yds rested, Measures an inch. My 25-2 is one of my favorite go to the range pistols. I have been playing with Win 452AA, because I have so much of it. It was a powder used by John Taffin in the 44spl.
Steve

Here is a close of the Hensley boolit

z4lunch, where did you get the. 452AA? It was my favorite powder and I also used the H&G68 200 gr bullet. 452AA was discontinued back in the late 80's, and sorely missed. Win Super Target is supposed to be close, and I use 5.3 gr and it is accurate, but still not like the old 452AA. I hate to think that it's the 20 yrs of additional age that that make my groups open up.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Mr. Richard, when I was 30 I did not think aging would make a difference. I am now 22 years smarter, and I have some bad news for you. :-0

On a more serious note: Given the problems known with some cylinders for the 25s, could one just get a new cylinder, or even re-chamber a used one, and solve that? This was one of the reasons I have made plans and taken steps to implement them for a 45ACP conversion.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.