When the NYPD still had revolvers in wide spread service, they used an unusual open top holster. I was wondering if any of the NYPD guys on here had any comments on this rig and if anyone has any pictures of NYPD revolver leather worn by members of service?
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NYPD revolver leather
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RichCapeCod
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Hi:
Members of the service in the NYPD had to purchase their own gear (we bought it from the Equipment Section located at 1 Police Plaza when I was in the dept). Our leather gear was an open top design that had been in use for many years. The manufacturer that I recall is "J-Pee." My old service holster is in the basement at the moment but I'm too lazy to get it and take a picture at the moment.
The design was simplicity itself. The handgun was pushed in from the top. A piece of extra leather was sewn inside the holster and that piece of leather was the "safety" that caught on the rim of the revolver's cylinder. When the user pushed their thumb into the holster that pushed the leather safety away permitting the user to pull out the revolver.
Sounds pretty weird. It was an inexpensive design but, remarkably, we had virtually no problem with snatched revolvers from our holsters!
Rich
RichCapeCod
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Forgive this really poor photos.
As you can see it's a pretty basic design. Just drop your revolver in her and she's good to go! The design did require a good deal of breaking in!
Your thumb pushes against the strip of leather inside the holster.
On the "newer" versions they had the manufacturer place a metal "U" riveted in place. This was due to an officer almost having his handgun ripped from his holster by an assailant. I believe the newer holsters also were sewn with nylon thread and not cotton thread (which would eventually rot and cause the holster pieces to separate).
As you can see it's a pretty basic design. Just drop your revolver in her and she's good to go! The design did require a good deal of breaking in!
Your thumb pushes against the strip of leather inside the holster.
On the "newer" versions they had the manufacturer place a metal "U" riveted in place. This was due to an officer almost having his handgun ripped from his holster by an assailant. I believe the newer holsters also were sewn with nylon thread and not cotton thread (which would eventually rot and cause the holster pieces to separate).
blackpowder
Member
Yes, I remember them well growing up in Queens late 60s and early seventies...... awkward looking holsters and always swiveled back and forth.....
kbm6893
SWCA Member
I loved mine. You could get a non-swivel model if you wanted, but the swivel was so nice when you sat in a radio car. Some guys will tell you that the swivel could breake and the holster seprate from the belt, but I never saw it or even heard of it.
Thanks fellas, I was always curious what you guys thought of that holster. It looks like you wore it on a standard garrison belt with two speedloaders, was that correct? Would that holster fit both the Model 10 and the Colt Official Police? Thanks again for the pictures and replies.
RichCapeCod
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Our equipment was pretty low quality in my opinion. Guys would wear there gear for 20 years, never replacing anything, and by that time the stuff was falling apart.
By the way, until the late 1980s we carried extra rounds in two dump pouches. Think about it, a cop back then had a six round revolver, plus twelve extra rounds on him. Today, a Glock 17 shooter carries nearly 50 rounds of ammo on them between the rounds in the gun and the two extra magazines!
Rich
I worked with an officer that sometimes used his father's NYPD holster.
He drew by grasping the Model 10 grip and pulling outward and up.
He drew by grasping the Model 10 grip and pulling outward and up.
JamesArthur60
US Veteran
That was a great description and photo from the former NYPD officer. I was totally unaware the revolver had some type of "hold" to keep it secure. That makes my issued holster even more unsafe. It was on a swivel with a leather cover flap. Nothing inside for security. Just a plain open drop-in holster. But like RichCapeCod stated, it was pretty low quality, but at the time we liked them. I actually hated to turn it in for the new (LAPD) breakway holster design. It sucked. IIRC, you had to push downward on your gun, then hard forward for the slotted front to open.
kbm6893
SWCA Member
Until 1986, when they finally let cops carry the speedloaders that they had been screaming for (and many cop carried anyway, against the rules). Speedloaders were seen as "too aggressive" by the rabble rousers like Al Sharpton. In 1986, three year veteran Scott Gadell was shot point blank by a suspect with a 9MM. They were involved in a shootout and Gadell had emptied his gun. He was crouched behind a dumpster fumbling to reload his revolver one round at a time (imagine the shaking hands dropping rounds as he fumbled to get them in the gun?). The perp walked right up and shot him in the head.
Funny how police agencies put their officers' safety behind political correctness? Look at Amadou Diallo, the man shot at 41 times (19 hits) by cops when he reached for a wallet in a dark hallway. We carried 115 grain full metal jacketed ammo (target range stuff). Housing and Transit already had hollow points since they worked in an environment filled with concrete, making ricochets more likely. The rounds that were fired at Diallo went through him, doing very little damage, hit the concrete behind him, and zipped BACK at the officers, blowing out the windows of the car they were covering behind. Only two rounds of the 19 that hit him were fatal, but neither instant stoppers. One nicked his aorta. Right after that, we got hollowpoints.
And now that most PD's carry .40 and up,the NYPD is still shooting the 9MM, with no plans to upgrade
In all the years I worked, our agency went through many different thoughts on holsters and the safety factor.
In the 80's we were given the choice of a safety retention style holster (Bianchi or Smith&Wesson) or keeping our Model 99 thumbreak Border Patrol style. I hated the retention holsters, ugly and hard to draw quickly from. To much aggressive movment if you were in a situation such as a vehicle stop. I kept my trusty border patrol style, as did many others.
We were allowed speed loaders in 1980. Many of us kept our belt slides and just added the carriers for the speed loaders.
Working very rural areas, your back up could be 15-30 minutes away...or more.
Only once did a subject try to grab my sidearm. After a couple of elbow smashes to his face, he lost all interest.
Domestic calls are the most dangerous of all.
In the 80's we were given the choice of a safety retention style holster (Bianchi or Smith&Wesson) or keeping our Model 99 thumbreak Border Patrol style. I hated the retention holsters, ugly and hard to draw quickly from. To much aggressive movment if you were in a situation such as a vehicle stop. I kept my trusty border patrol style, as did many others.
We were allowed speed loaders in 1980. Many of us kept our belt slides and just added the carriers for the speed loaders.
Working very rural areas, your back up could be 15-30 minutes away...or more.
Only once did a subject try to grab my sidearm. After a couple of elbow smashes to his face, he lost all interest.
Domestic calls are the most dangerous of all.
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blackpowder
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why upgrade? The 9mmP is more potent than it's looks would suggest. If JHPs are used it is a quite effective manstopper.
Bell Charter Oak Holsters
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The service revolver holster saw about a century of use, in a few different incarnations. It was inspired by the Audley Folsom designs and could be had from any one of a half dozen makers from the 1940's forward. Jay-Pee, Greenblatt, Service Manufacturing and many others offered them with different features. River straps, trigger guard spring loaded releases, reinforced mouthbands, swivels, no swivel like the one below. Flap holsters of the same basic style were used by ESU (Emergency Service) the Marine Unit and Mounted Unit. The Audley Folsom service holsters were used all over the U.S., and the NYPD and NYSP used them as well.
NYPD Type
NYSP Type
And here's a few very vintage Audley's.
Cheers;
Lefty
NYPD Type
NYSP Type
And here's a few very vintage Audley's.
Cheers;
Lefty
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kbm6893
SWCA Member
I carry a 9MM myself, but the reason the job won't upgrade isn't because the 9MM is adequate. They bow down to political pressure, even if it places officers in danger. We were the last major PD (and probably minor one, too) to retire our .38's, and when they did give us the 9MM they only issued 10 round mags. When the next mayor and PC came along (6 months after we got the 9MM), they issued the 15 round mags.
Old Corp
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Good info on the NYPD holsters. No offense intended, but always thought they could win "The Most Ugly Award".
When I started, my department had been using the Border Patrol style for years. When cared for, they can look really sharp.
For some strange reason there were always guys that wanted to 'lean' on the grip frame in that design. Always looked bad doing it too.
About '82 (after several gun-snatching attempts) we went to an early Gould & Goodrich security holster that was only available in clarino finish. That was followed by all the rest of the belt and gear going clarino.
When I started, my department had been using the Border Patrol style for years. When cared for, they can look really sharp.
For some strange reason there were always guys that wanted to 'lean' on the grip frame in that design. Always looked bad doing it too.
About '82 (after several gun-snatching attempts) we went to an early Gould & Goodrich security holster that was only available in clarino finish. That was followed by all the rest of the belt and gear going clarino.
Bell Charter Oak Holsters
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Well I must agree they would never win any beauty contest. But the design is a sound one. It protected the service weapon from the weather pretty well, especially the flap models. During inclement weather, the coat, raincoat or blouse covered the grip frame, which typically suffered the lionshare of abuse. It seats the weapon deeply and it stayed in the holster when you had to give chase on foot or mix it up with the mutts. We still get orders for them. Yeah, there's nothing elegant about them, but they worked....for 100+ years. As for Clarino.....well I won't even touch that one!
Cheers;
Lefty
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As a rookie in NYC, I would continually try to break in that holster. Holding the bottom of the holster with non shooting hand, twisting it to loosen it up as I worked my thumb down the inside of the holster. After a while...actually many months, it would soften up to the point where I was actually able to remove my model 10 from the holster fairly quickly.
The real challenge was any foot chase...the swivel would flop around while running.
The real challenge was any foot chase...the swivel would flop around while running.
JamesArthur60
US Veteran
Here's the swivel/flap holster I was issued in 1972. That belt was about a size 50 for my 32" waist. I hated that uncomfortable and unsafe shoulder belt?
kbm6893
SWCA Member
Yeah, the swivel flopped when you chased smeone, but how often was that? I liked the swivel because when you sat in a radio car, you you move the holster to a more comfortable position (when i was the recorder, that was on top of my leg. Easy to get to).
I would like to maqke a couple of points which I am sure you are going to take issue with.
I was taught the term "New York Reload" came from carrying a second revolver and this practice was actually encouraged by the department. I don't know the circumstances of Officer Gadell's death it appears from your post that he was not carrying a second gun.
Shooting at a suspect 41 times with only 2 lethal hits is poor marksmanship. I don't care how you want to spin it no caliber or bullet style is going to make up for lousy marksmanship. Nor do I believe it is fair to cast all the blame on the department. Every officer has the opportunity to practice shooting when they are off duty.
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