looking at the photos of the Model 27 and the 19 on gunbroker in 4 inch


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and besides the cylinder gap is there any obivious differences between the way they look

and do they feel the same in hand then?

sorry could only find photos of the nickel plated ones in 4 inch, not the blued ones I found awhile back.

The Model 27 is the direct decendant of the first 357 mag and is on the full-size N-frame. In the 1950s, S&W decided to offer the 357 magnum in the lighter K-frame for peace officers and those who carry daily. The result was the Combat Magnum, later to be renamed the Model 19.
The N-frame remains a bit large and heavy for the 357 for most who carry constantly. The Model 19 does not hold up well with a steady diet of magnum loads; hence the introduction of the right sized L-frame in the 80s.

ALL are good guns and have their place in the holsters and hearts of those who appreciate fine firearms.

The links you provided are for the 3 1/2 inch model 27 and the 4 inch model 27. As for the difference in barrel length in terms of "feel", I suspect it would take a real expert to notice any real difference, it's probably only an ounce or less of steel. In terms or looks, a 3 1/2 inch model 27 is plain sexy and "all business", on the other hand the 4 incher is just another 4 inch model 27.

Opps sorry I sometimes make silly mistakes like that at night when doing an all nighter

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and the reason why I was wondering if there was any difference between the feel of the two was because when I looked at two examples on gunbroker (not these particular two examples mind you) the only difference my eye could pick up was the cylinder gap between the bottom of the frame and the cylinder itself


and I've been going back in forth in my mind about what to go with as I did try a model 19 - 4 at the range with 38 loads and the damn thing felt perfect in my hand, however I havent ever shot a 27 but I do really like my N frame model 29 - 2 but I would never carry it.

so I'm kind of going back and forth in my head, do I heed the warnings about the 19 and just try and go with the earliest possibile model to make sure the quality control is there to prevent the barrel cracking issues with the latter ones made in the 1970's and 1980's noted here:

Use of Magnum Loads in S&W Model 19 and Other K-Frame Magnums

or go with the 27 if the difference is negligible

the L (or was that I frames?) are out as after what it did to my dad I dont trust the things to begin with nor do I like the look of the 686 to begin with.

and theres about 5 other reports on here about the 686 doing the same damn thing to them as well, locking up the gun with 6 shots and that particular incident put My father off of smith and wesson completely and that was in 82 - 83 and I cant say I blame him.

however if theres another I or L frame out there besides the 686 that doesnt have that problem and has the old look of the classic revolvers I would consider it.

There is just a different feel to them. For a house gun, or range gun, the 27 feels better/solid/heavier. To carry all day the 19 gets the nod.

What happened to your Dad's 686? Never heard of them having problems.

Freak here for N-frames bored .429" or .452"........but I'll take my .357s in the form of a Model 13, 19, 60, 65, or 66.......just my druthers and it's all based on "feel"..

he bought a brand new, new model 686 in 1982 or 1983 because he really liked the look of it, took it to the range with factory ammo and with the first 6 shots the cylinder of the gun locked up and he was unable to open the cylinder

and latter he was told there was a recall for it, sent it back to smith and wesson and once he got it back he sold it as he couldnt trust the gun anymore and he also never bought another new smith and wesson ever again because of it

and thus the only smith and wesson he ever had was his steel framed model 39 he bought new in 1962

hell for the longest time he didnt even know he had one of the rare steel framed ones till someone told him about it.


and on the worst smith and wessons thread theres a mention of two other 686's with this problem and a recent thread about another one having the same problem and I think one or two others I can recall where they are

and how can I trust a 686 after knowing that it not only failed my father, albiet in the best possibile way as it was on a gunrange rather than when you really needed it and about 5 other people?

I mean even if the barrel cracked on the 19 you could still shoot the damn thing and save your life with it.

The model 27 would be my choice if I was only going to have one S&W .357. Great range, house and light game hunting gun. The 27 can take a steady diet of full power .357 Magnum ammo for a long time without undue wear. The model 19 is fine gun to carry all day. Also a range gun with medium 140 to 160 grain .357 loads and any .38 Special ammo. The 19 will wear much faster than the 27 when used with full power magnum ammo, especially bullet weights under 130 grains.

As for your dad's 686; S&W stepped up an recalled the no dash -1 586/686 guns because of the (slightly) over-sized hole in the firing pin bushing could under very limited conditions allow primer flow back to lock-up the revolver. The fix is simple and 100% effective. His gun should be 100% reliable now. I have a couple of un-modified no dash models that have caused no issues, however if one was to be my self-defense gun instead of a range toy- I would have the recall repair performed.

I have to admit that does make me feel alittle better about the L frames but still I dont really care for the look of them

and smith and wesson should have tested the new gun before putting it out on the market, I mean that really is a beginners mistake to make with a revolver even if it was one with a new frame.

and a potentally fatal one for the user, hell if he had to use that thing for self defense before learning that it was defective I wouldnt even have existed.


but I think in the meantime I'd rather have a .357 that will outlast me so I'll go for the 27 then as the extra weight can be negated by a good shoulder holster to begin with and most lawmen probably carried the 27 on a hip holster which I know from experience aint that comfortable!

Kavinsky

It is hard to tell the difference in a photograph between the handling of the K, L, and the N frame S&W's. I recommend you go to a good gun store and handle all 3.

Shoot them if possible. Pick the one you like the best.

well I do have a K22 6 inch and a N frame .44 6 inch and I like both of them so I reckon they should feel somewhere along the lines of those two


point taken though.

I love S&W K frames and have a couple dozen of them (including a very nice 4" model 19), but if you find a nice 27 IMHO that is pretty much revolver heaven. The have a great finish and the 3 I have all have wonderful triggers. The N frame makes shooting full house .357 loads a joy. Warning once you buy a 27 you will want others in different barrel lengths.

__________________
Jim
Many K and N Frames

I have a 4" 686-1 and a 4" 586-1 and both shoot extremely well and can shoot .357s all day long. These guns were designed as "duty weapons" and some find them big to carry concealed. I currently have a 4" model 19-3 that I shoot hand loaded .357s at about +p and +p+ levels with no problem. I don't have any experience, unfortunately, with a model 27 (one of my grail guns) but I have a 4" model 28 that will shoot any .357 made. It is almost identical to a 4" model 27 and is a well balanced weapon but as an N frame it is a bit big for concealed carry. Bottom line is a model 19 or a model 27 would be a great addition for you.

I Have to admit I'm starting to really like the look of the 3 1/2 model 27

http://www.imfdb.org/w/images/a/a5/S%26WRev.jpg

as it makes it look like one hell of a powerhouse, might be hard to shoot one that short though


although 4 inches seems to be the ideal look for a 19

You are spot on. I did not know you owned those 2 guns. They are perfect examples of the differences in frame sizes.

Also the 3.5" Mod 27, IMHO is the "coolest" looking of ANY S&W revolver ever made. And I while say that, I am not a 357 Mag kind of guy...

There is just something about the shape and looks of a 3.5" Mod 27.

The deciding factor should be is what you intend to do with this gun..........

If it is meant to be carried a lot and shot a little, the K-Frame is the way to go. If it will be used for a considerable amount of shooting (especially with .357 Magnums) than the N-Frame is the way to go. Better yet, get both - they are both classic S&W guns!

Chief38

Well I plan on getting a K38 down the line as a companion piece to my goto practice gun there the 1950's K22 which I only shoot DA whenever I use it at the range.


and then use this as a magnum only gun and primarily as a range gun, although I do want to shoot it (So on that basis alone the 19 wouldnt be that useful to me)


and if I find a good holster possibily carry it although that might be overkill for its size and weight and thats also why I was looking into a good .40 call and that Sig 245 a few weeks ago

plus I wouldnt feel that bad about putting a few scratches on a sig from carrying it as the last one they made with a good bluing job was the Sig 230 20 some years ago, if anything it would give it character

Now on a model 27 however that would drive me nuts although I guess that's what a model 28 would be for

I've had and shot both. The 27 is bigger and heavier no matter what barrel length compared to the 19. The 19 feels, and carries better than the 27. Shooting full house loads the 19 feels like a j frame gun and the 27 you can shoot like a rifle. If you can shoot hot Jframes like a 60 then you can do better with the 19. If you can't you better buy a 27. Cadillac vs camaro.

My sentiment exactly. The big N frame 357 cylinder sure makes its mass felt in DA firing.

__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Have a 3" 66 and a 3.5" 27-2. If it came down to one I'd go with the 19. You can load 180 gr. bullets that will do about anything you need outdoors or shoot light .38's for comfort or stoke it with some 158 gr. magnums for SD. It's a lighter revolver that's a breeze to carry and shoot, especially DA. I can shoot it much better than the 27 as I have small-medium sized hands and the 27 is a handful. It's also easier to carry and hide concealed which can be easily done with a good IWB holster and belt. Been packing a full sized 1911 Springer this way for over 23 years so that 4" is easy to use as a SD weapon. If you stick to 158 gr. bullets the revolver will last a very long time before a tune up and way less of a chance of cracking the forcing cone. Most folks I know shoot way more .38's than magnums through their .357's and if you go that route it'll last forever. Last but not least it's a tackdriver that will easily shoot as accurately or more so than my 27 as the balance is perfect for me.

The 27 is the most beautiful revolver ever made by S&W IMO, but is heavier and them extra ounces WILL add up after a day of hiking or hunting and humping the hills. I have a harder time shooting it DA as the grip is large and harder for me to maintain when shooting magnums. Mines so darn handsome IMO I don't holster it to keep the finish looking great. If it's going to be used as a carry revolver a model 28 would be the way to go as you can use it without feeling bad about it getting scratched up and so forth which will happen given steady use. Love to target practice with mine as it does handle .357's easily, but see's mostly .38's.

In closing I'd try to get my hands on both and give em a test drive to see which feels better in your hand. I put part of my allowance away for purchasing a couple revolvers a year and its worth it. If you can't I'd still go with the 19. Take care of it, keep the magnum count down and stick with the 158 gr. rounds for a longer life.

Either way you're getting one heck of a revolver and will be happy with either one. Happy hunting!

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V/R
Roger / SG

Damn it you guys are NOT making this an easy choice lol

I guess i'll just have to go with both and try to get the earliest and least worn 19 I can find with a good sized forcing cone on it as that was something the gunblast guy mentioned that some of them had a smaller forcing cone than others

and the 27, both of which should with recessed cylinders as that would mean at the latest it was a pre 1980's gun like my 79' - 80 6 inch model 29