Range Gun in .357: K, L, or N Frame?

[nody]

If you were looking for a shooter, used, for 38 Special WC to full power .357 handloads, but were not going to carry it concealed or otherwise, for shooting steel and paper, which would be your choice, and why?

In the past, personally, I enjoyed my N-frames more than K's, but I have been away from revolvers for 25+ years, and never owned an L-frame, which were not even out yet.

[Hearsedriver]

I personally love my 4" L-framed 586 at the range. Nice balance and weight, Dead-on accurate, and shoots anything I put in it. Its just a dream to shoot. I picked mine up for $250.00 at a pawn shop and it is in 95% condition. I wouldnt take twice that for it.

[trulyapostolic]

If it were a dedicated target gun I would buy the heaviest pistol I could handle for 100 rounds without it tiring me out. The heavier the gun will give you less perceived recoil so you can concentrate on trigger control. I'd buy a full underling 6" barrel.

[Ironhand]

*cough-cough*


N-Frame...

[old bear]

.357 Magnum K frames are to carried a lot and shot a little. .357 Magnum L frames are to be carried a lot and shot a lot. .357 Magnum N frames are to be shot a lot.

As much as I really like my K & N frames the 586/686 is the best balance of the three for all around use.

[ElToro]

my 6 inch 28. shop hard you can pick them up for under 500. will eat almost everything you will ever shoot.

[bananaman]

I have my k's, but just bought a 28-2. ( 1st N) It is a 6". Haven't got it yet. It's only purpose will be range duty. I have others that will do other things as needed. Bob

[williamlayton]

L's or N's.--586's and 28's.
You can carry them also.
Blessings

[Sportsterguy]

Originally Posted by Hearsedriver

I personally love my 4" L-framed 586 at the range. Nice balance and weight, Dead-on accurate, and shoots anything I put in it. Its just a dream to shoot. I picked mine up for $250.00 at a pawn shop and it is in 95% condition. I wouldnt take twice that for it.

Have the same no dash revolver and agree with Hearsedriver 100%. Have way over 20K rounds through it and its by far my most accurate centerfire. I took one deer with it from 65 paces using .357 158 gr. Speer Gold Dots and it did the job with authority. Only time I ever used a .357 for deer and people who say it's not enough gun haven't used theirs with the CORRECT bullet for hunting them bambies. With the right round it will easily take one down. As others will/have stated the L frame 586/686 (blue, nickel/stainless) were made for a steady diet of .357's. I'd never put that many rounds through my model 27 (N Frame) and the grip of the L framed 586 with a set of Herretts is perfect for me! The N frames grips are a little too big for DA shooting for me as I have small-medium sized hands.

I never sent it back to the factory for the M mod as it's not one of my SD revolvers, but would use it for that with no second thoughts. Paid 325.00 or less IMS for mine as it has some nickel missing from the front end of the cylinder. Not a collector but one heck of a shooting machine! Money very well spent and I'm sure you'd love one too

Terrible picture that does not do the 586 justice.

Happy hunting!

[Sealevel]

My 586 with 6" underlug barrel I believe fits the description of what you are looking for. It is extremely accurate with full load 158 grain .357 rounds.

After shooting those same rounds from my model 65 3" gun, I pick up the 586 and the barrel just stays on target shot after shot, and the trigger is so smooth.

I have shot my friends model 27, which is nice, but I would not trade him 586 for 27.

[Nick B]

Originally Posted by Sportsterguy

Have the same no dash revolver and agree with Hearsedriver 100%. Have way over 20K rounds through it and its by far my most accurate centerfire. I took one deer with it from 65 paces using .357 158 gr. Speer Gold Dots and it did the job with authority. Only time I ever used a .357 for deer and people who say it's not enough gun haven't used theirs with the CORRECT bullet for hunting them bambies. With the right round it will easily take one down. As others will/have stated the L frame 586/686 (blue, nickel/stainless) were made for a steady diet of .357's. I'd never put that many rounds through my model 27 (N Frame) and the grip of the L framed 586 with a set of Herretts is perfect for me! The N frames grips are a little too big for DA shooting for me as I have small-medium sized hands.

I never sent it back to the factory for the M mod as it's not one of my SD revolvers, but would use it for that with no second thoughts. Paid 325.00 or less IMS for mine as it has some nickel missing from the front end of the cylinder. Not a collector but one heck of a shooting machine! Money very well spent and I'm sure you'd love one too

Terrible picture that does not do the 586 justice.

Happy hunting!

Did that Gold Dot expand at that distance ?

[murphydog]

All three frame types are fine choices. Best to see which one handles best for you - a 4" model 19 and an 8 3/8" model 27 feel quite a bit different, to use the extreme examples. A 4 to 6" L frame is a good middle ground gun if it balances well for you.

[DCWilson]

For the purposes you define, the heavier the better.

For some reason I don't think of L frames as dedicated target revolvers, though I am sure that experienced shooters can get excellent accuracy from them. For accuracy with a .357 I suspect you will want a 27 or pre-27 with a barrel not shorter than six inches. If you handload, remember that a .38/44 Outdoorsman of any vintage will handle all .38 ammo and can be loaded up to .357 levels. Sights on prewar guns are small. The postwar guns have better adjustable sights.

[Titegroups]

The L is the way to go, a N frame 357 is just a bunch of extra metal that's not needed.

[Neumann]

A 4" 686 would be a good compromise for the OP's intentions - long enough for paper and short enough for steel, which usually a speed game. I have a 686-6 7-shot, which had the best off-the-shelf trigger to that point. Since then, I've handled a couple of 686-SSR revolvers, which have the S&W charm school treatment - really sweet.

Top that off with a good set of grips. I like Ahrends Tactical grips, finger grooves with a flat front for optimum positioning. Their wide back allows a high grip position and spreads out the recoil. I'm good for 100+ rounds of full loads, especially now that I'm set up for reloading again.

[scooter123]

My most accurate revolver is my model 620, which is a tensioned barrel variant of the 686 Plus. Accuracy is simply stunning, however with a hot load of 357 Magnum it is a handful of power and light enough that you know it. Because of this I generally limit my ammo with this to either 38's or 38 +P. Age has taken it's toll on my wrists and I just don't have the recoil tolerance I once had.

IMO for pure range use you just can't beat the N frame. Not only does the increased mass help mitigate recoil, the N frames feature an internal trigger stop rod in the rebound spring that helps keep the rebound spring from buckling in the bore in the rebound slide. As a result, the N frames have a VERY smooth trigger. End result is that I shoot my N frames a bit better in offhand rapid fire shooting and look a bit better to anyone watching.

[john4970]

All of the above excellent comments and... my 28 6" was purchased with Pachmayr grips on it. It felt great and pointed well. As a wood kind of guy, I installed a set of service magnas and the gun feels and points completely differently. Grips do make a big difference. I shoot with the Pachmayrs and show with the wood. Get a gun and grips that fit your hand and fingers.

I have N, L and K frames and they are like kids. Different, but you love each one.

Good luck with your choice. You can't go very far wrong with any of the guns listed. Best wishes.

[TAROMAN]

Another issue is if your range time involves DA shooting. My L-frame 681 is much nicer than my N-frame 27 in DA firing due, I believe, to less rotating mass in the cylinder. For SA, its a wash.
Just seems to me that N-frames want to be .44s or .45s.

[Cpt. Obvious]

my 2 cents: I'd say go for a 4" L frame. I shot a 4" k and a 4" L the other day, and I enjoyed shooting my 681 more. It's not as pretty as my 19, but that 681 was a laser beam. If fixed sights aren't your bag, the 686 seems like the logical choice.

[Joe in SC]

Under the guidelines you posted, I would want an N-frame. A 27 or a 28 would be the choices and either will hold up forever if you choose a gun that is well timed and not ragged out from abuse and neglect. I would get a 6 inch gun.

[MacA]

I have all three frame sizes in various lengths, and the ones that stands out above all the rest are the L frames w/ 4" barrels. My 686 no dash 4" is an amazing weapon. I actually own two now. One is a NIB safe queen, while the other is my favorite range gun!

Not only are they the most versatile, they are the best looking as well .....

[crsides]

27


Charlie

[trauma1]

6" L frame - 586/686. They are a little bit heavier, easier to find and generally a little less expensive. Also seem to be pretty accurate regardless what you put through them.

[C.S.63]

Nody,
All great Info provided, Just recently I purchased an N frame model 28
similar to your reasoning Get a 28 or a 27 The L frames are great also
but do not miss the boat on an N frame .357 (model 28) the prices are starting to climb on the nicer ones, Oh I also have a 681 but prefer the sights on the 28 I guess it is the Bifocals, and I also shoot outdoors almost always these days. happy revolver hunting

[nody]

Excellent feedback and advice Gentlemen!

I am pleaseantly surprised to hear of the good out of the box trigger pulls on the L's, and your affection for them. One always worries about "new fangled…"

Many years ago I had a 5" 27, 5-screw. It was nice but always felt a little light in front, or rather, heavy in back.

I handled a 6" 28 the other day, and have enjoyed the many recent threads here about the Highway Patrolman.

The other N-frames I had was a 6" 29 and 25, which really were better balanced than the 5" 27, but was also a tank for lots of off hand shooting.

Today I stopped by a shop that had both a 6" 586 and 4" 686. I'm definitely a bs guy, and I was very impressed by the finish of the 586.

With that lug, the center of gravity was, as expected, NOTICIBLY different between the two bbl lengths, moreso than the 4 vs 6" 29/25. The 5/686s were amazingly well balanced, though very noticibly different. I can see where the extra 2" would really steady the muzzle, but also slow it down a bit.

I did not dry fire them out of courtesy, so I did not get a chance to feel the trigger pulls.

Both were in high 90s condition, and high $5xx. Likewise the few 28s about are in the high $5s-low 6s. I should have noted the -#s. Seemed a bit steep, but I'm not dialed on the market yet, the way you Gents are.

I have to say, based primarily upon your reccommendations, as well as feel, and as a change of pace from the past, the 586 is the most intriguing at the moment. I'll no doubt shoot a lot more steel than paper, and am more hankering for a 4" of whatever, though giving up the velocity and sight radius stings.

Originally, I was thinking 4" 19 vs 4" 28, but as sweet as the 19 is, my K-38 and K-22 never wowed me as much as I had hoped, or anywhere near as much as their big bothers. I liked Old Bear's comment, ".357 Magnum K frames are to carried a lot and shot a little."

I am now recalling that S&Ws are like M&Ms: You can't stop at one!

P.S.

I imagine you fellas saw these, but just in case you didn't, they are simply stunning. S&W should hire DHart.

586 or 27??



[/QUOTE]

[fyimo]

I have the 686 and 586 both with 6 inch barrel and they are both great shooters but my favorite range 357 magnum for shooting full house 357 magnum rounds is my Model 28-2 with 6 inch barrel. it balances well and isn't barrel heavy and handles the recoil like a dream.

[Hearsedriver]

FYI, If you decide on a 586 or 686, the "no dash" and the "-1's" had a recall. If it has been performed, there will be an "M" stamped near the model number. If not, you can call S&W and they will send you a shipping lable and perform the modification at no charge ( replace firing pin and bushing). I have one going back to them next week for it. If the model is 586/686-2 or above, the recall is not necassary.

[Doug M.]

Get one of each! I have a 4" 66, a 4" 686 MG, and plan to get a 5" M27. The 66 is not for a steady diet of .357s, but is easier to carry. I suspect that most of what I will use are .38 wadcutters and some heavy .38 SWC loads. I also plan to get a K38, just because.

[zelda]

My Model 28 is not chunky like a 686. lt is more proportioned and graceful.

[NavyFrank]

I prefer an N frame. I have a choice of 627 8shot, 28-2 or a 3 1/2 inch 27-2. This weekend it's going to be the 27-2 in a Bucheimer Duty holster/rig.

Frank
SWCA 2087

[steamloco76]

Originally Posted by Sealevel

My 586 with 6" underlug barrel I believe fits the description of what you are looking for. It is extremely accurate with full load 158 grain .357 rounds.

After shooting those same rounds from my model 65 3" gun, I pick up the 586 and the barrel just stays on target shot after shot, and the trigger is so smooth.

I have shot my friends model 27, which is nice, but I would not trade him 586 for 27.

I really like the 586/686 revolvers with the 6 inch barrel as range guns. They seem to shoot very well with everything from 148 grain .38 Spl. wadcutters to booming full house .357 Magnums. My N frame guns don't do nearly as well with .38 Spl. loads. and I only shoot mid level Magnums from the light K frame guns.

[BearBio]

Originally Posted by john4970

All of the above excellent comments and... my 28 6" was purchased with Pachmayr grips on it. It felt great and pointed well. As a wood kind of guy, I installed a set of service magnas and the gun feels and points completely differently. Grips do make a big difference. I shoot with the Pachmayrs and show with the wood. Get a gun and grips that fit your hand and fingers.

I have N, L and K frames and they are like kids. Different, but you love each one.

Good luck with your choice. You can't go very far wrong with any of the guns listed. Best wishes.

I agree. Not only grip size between the N and K/L, but configuration. My .44 Charter Arms only feels comfortable with Herretts, one N frame (5.5") with Ahrend smooth targets. My 6" N frame (25-5) is most accurate with factory targets. My 4" N frame (Model 28) fits me best with service grips, whereas my .44 special 3" is best with combats. Each one balances slightly different.


here are my S & W snubbies just as an example:


I think (I KNOW, actually) most of us have a box of extra grips that don't "feel right" or "look right" for some reason.

[nody]

Since I had so many helpful responses, I thought you gents deserved some pics; everyone likes gun pics!

After quite a bit of looking I found a 586 no dash with only slight muzzle wear and a cylinder line. Since I have already run 1500 full house .357 Mag hand loads through it DA, using goodly doses of 2400 and Blue Dot pushing 158 gr commercial cast SWCs, I wasn't too worried about "normal wear."

The main thing is it had ZERO rust/scratches/damage. A slight burring of the cyclinder release screw head was about it for "abuse."

The DA/SA existing trigger was VERY nice, but a Wolff kit made it simply the best trigger I have ever touched, with 100% reliability.

I have a set of unfinished Cocobolo Ahrends on order, but they are a little backed up, happily for them. When they come in and I get them finished, I'll post some more if this generates any interest.

Anyway, to the pictures! Enjoy.

[A10]

For strictly target (maybe hunting if you want to) I'd ele 8 ct the 27-2 with an 8 3/8" barrel. Very accurate, better recoil, and the least expensive 27 you can find right now.

[murphydog]

An excellent choice, and glad you found the gun you wanted.

[wantmoresmiths]

Very nice 586. It should serve you well.

Interesting post. I wish I had seen it when it originated. My advice for a gun that would never see the inside of a holster, would have been 4" nickel plated model 27-2. Great balance, superb accuracy, and a slight bit of collectability, since they only made the 4" model 27 for a few years. I once owned one, but sold it off to finance one of the guns I currently use for IDPA. Continually drawing from a holster is not nickel finish friendly.

[2hawk]

Congrats nody, you've got a fine weapon there. I had one just like it, it was my first "nice" revolver, and it shot lights out. Used to take a bunch of old golf balls and throw them out about 50-60 feet and just obliterate them. Guys I shot with told me I needed to throw them further, too many one shot kills

[NE450No2]

N Frame 44 Mags and 45 ACP's are my favorite revolvers, so if I wanted a 38/357 i would probably go with a 6" Mod 27...

But actually for a strictly range gun a 6" L frame with a full underlug would be hard to beat.

When I shot in PPC matches I started out with a 6" Mod 14 with the factory barrel and had a full length Bomar rib put on it, with a great DA action job of course.

I tried several different custom bull barreled PPC guns made by several of the top name makers, but even at 50 yards that S&W out shot them all.

I would try all 3 frame sizes and see what you like the best.

[M2MikeGolf]

All suggestions here are relavant and practical. I just have to add one in as it seems to be omitted; it was my first .357 and maybe the best, but for carrying, it was simply out of the question. It has always seemed to me the ultimate .357 however; the 8 3/8" model 27. I often wished I had never sold it, but my pure range gun days ended thirty years ago. The L-Frames are probably the perfect balance (I've got one and I love it), but I think if I were to go pure range firing, it would be that model 27 with the long barrel.

To me it seems that the J or K-Frames are the best for carryability, the N-frames for range or hunting use, and the L-Frames for the "best of both worlds". JMHO!

[MacA]

Originally Posted by nody

After quite a bit of looking I found a 586 no dash with only slight muzzle wear and a cylinder line.

Very nice choice! Good looking gun as well!! Thanks for the pics.

[PMRet]

I just found a place with a couple of used 586's set up the same way, 6" barrel with patridge sight, should be perfect for range work. The price is decent and I've been debating whether to pick one up, seeing yours has pretty much convinced me...

[PuertoRican]

Originally Posted by Sportsterguy

Have the same no dash revolver and agree with Hearsedriver 100%. Have way over 20K rounds through it and its by far my most accurate centerfire. I took one deer with it from 65 paces using .357 158 gr. Speer Gold Dots and it did the job with authority. Only time I ever used a .357 for deer and people who say it's not enough gun haven't used theirs with the CORRECT bullet for hunting them bambies. With the right round it will easily take one down. As others will/have stated the L frame 586/686 (blue, nickel/stainless) were made for a steady diet of .357's. I'd never put that many rounds through my model 27 (N Frame) and the grip of the L framed 586 with a set of Herretts is perfect for me! The N frames grips are a little too big for DA shooting for me as I have small-medium sized hands.

I never sent it back to the factory for the M mod as it's not one of my SD revolvers, but would use it for that with no second thoughts. Paid 325.00 or less IMS for mine as it has some nickel missing from the front end of the cylinder. Not a collector but one heck of a shooting machine! Money very well spent and I'm sure you'd love one too

Terrible picture that does not do the 586 justice.

Happy hunting!

What is the "M" mod?

[nody]

Originally Posted by PMRet

I just found a place with a couple of used 586's set up the same way, 6" barrel with patridge sight, should be perfect for range work. The price is decent and I've been debating whether to pick one up, seeing yours has pretty much convinced me...

Speaking of price, since we are all "in the market," it seems useful to share. I believe it was neither a steal nor a ripoff, but fair given what I found out there, especially considering the condition and no dash. He wanted 6, I wanted 5, we settled on 5.5 FTF.

Other than the load development, I shoot mostly steel plates with full power rounds, and the heavy barrel gets right back on target quickly. At a big get together of shooting buddies last weekend, I and my friends had the chance to run some of my handloads through others' guns as a comparison. There was a 4" Highway Patrolman, 4" Security Six, 4" Trooper Mk III, and a former 4" Python owner. All agreed the 586 with and without the Wolff kit was smoother SA/DA by far, and handled the recoil far better.

I've worked up 158 gr SWC loads with Unique, 2400, and something I hadn't used before, Blue Dot, which had no leading, unlike the higher Unique charges. All rounds had easy extraction, .005" case expansion or less, and not excessively flattened primers. These pics were shot at different sessions, so they varied from 5, 6, & 10 round groups during the project; it is not consistent, I know, but I didn't photograph all the targets shot. These projects always get more detailed as you go.

The pictures compare with the data on the spreadsheet I made, where the rounds fired are consistent.

586 testing:

The below pics were fired on a 50 FOOT range, rested on a pad only.


Unique, 10 round groups:

2" x 2.25"



1.75 x 2.5"




2400, 6 round groups:

1.625" x 0.625"

This is the primary load I have settled on. I have since adjusted the sight to bring all this to center, 6:00 small bullseye (bottom POI)


1.25" x 2.125"




Blue Dot, 5 round groups:

2" x 2.75"

(BTW, all those black dots were the prior owner of that target. He left it on the board, so I plugged his holes and used it. Yes, I'm a cheap bas…)




The 11.0 was a pressure test load, with normal case expansion (.005) and primers no more flattened than 6.0 Unique or 13.0 2400.



10 rounds, not a great overall group, but an interesting string. I need to test some more of this.

[Eaglestroker]

Let's just face the facts. You need all three

[Reevolvers]

Originally Posted by Eaglestroker

Let's just face the facts. You need all three

What he said! I couldn't agree more!

[VaRecon]

My vote is for N. My 27 is to this day the most accurate revolver I've owned.

[nipster]

A 6" L frame 586/686 is pretty hard to beat as a shooter, with the 6" N frame 27/28 not far behind. I wouldnt want to carry either one.

My favorite shooter is a 4" model 19, but i'm most accurate on the 6" 686, it's just more balanced and handles recoil better under heavy loads.

[notsofast]

I wound up with two .357's, a 627 and a M19, like them both, but if I had to do it again I would save myself some money and have one 586/686 L frame.

[Eaglestroker]

While I stand by me comment regarding you needing all of them, my L frame is best in my hands. There's no right or wrong though.

[michael thornton]

well i have 7 357s n k and l frames they are all great guns !