Model 14-3 Single Action Only from factory

THREEDFLYER · Mar 25, 2013

Curious if there is much of a market for these?
I have one that appears new in box from 1973, yes the box is marked SA, but there is no marking on the revolver.
If I decide to sell, would there be an added premium for the single action?
The catalog does not mention this as I am sure it was not a regular stocking item.
Tom

PattonTime · Mar 25, 2013

Model 14 S\A

I am not sure how much of a premium but I would sure think anything out of the ordinary is worth somewhat extra.
I have same thing in a Colt Officers Model Match.
The book shows a large premium for it.
But states a letter showing its documented it is necessary.
I know on a Colt it is merely taking the hammer strut out, I am not positive of my terminology but I am sure of how easy it is.
I sent mine to Colt as trigger was under a # and it seemed unsafe. They "fixed" it but also put this small part in no charge. When I called to complain , they said It was probably done after it left, when I insisted it was genuine they said they would look it up and if it was they would pay shipping back and would repair it.They quickly called back and sent a call tag for shipping.
When I asked for documentation they said I would have to pay to letter it but assured me it would be worth it. It shipped to Fort Meade to Ordnance Property Officer July 29th 1960.
Sadly though, my Smith version is a fake, I bought a Single action Target hammer and trigger set here on the forum and put it in a no dash Model 14 four screw I have had for years.I really enjoy shooting it, in single action that is.

Flint Ridge · Mar 25, 2013

SA do demand a premium if genuine.

smithfan4152 · Mar 25, 2013

Premium

If you expect to get a premium you need to insure it is original, and not modified after the factory, as people did purchase the items to change one over from DA to SA only. There are a few parts needed,and often times they would take a short cut, and not buy a new hammer, somewhere there is a notch or clearance that would not be there on the SA model hammer.
Best if it were lettered, there goes your premium.

THREEDFLYER · Mar 25, 2013

As mentioned, the box lable notes that this is an SA model.
Curious if teh S&W records would have the information needed to confirm this in fact was done at the factory? I will post a query with Roy to confirm.
Also curious if the premium added to the value would be more than the $50 cost of a letter?
Tom

pharmer · Mar 25, 2013

Top 14-3 is SAO, in the 12K ser # range. I think it's factory, can't see where someone (with the exception of a previous poster) would go through the trouble to convert the gun to SAO. I don't have the box or any accessories as I got this gun in repayment of a $200 loan. Joe

JP@AK · Mar 25, 2013

THREEDFLYER said:
Curious if the S&W records would have the information needed to confirm this in fact was done at the factory? I will post a query with Roy to confirm.

I'll save you the trouble, Tom. The records will show the SAO configuration if the gun shipped that way. I had this discussion with Roy a couple years ago when I acquired an SAO Model 14-3. I subsequently obtained a factory letter, confirming the gun shipped single action. You should specify the question when you submit your request, to make sure it doesn't get missed. If you have box, docs and tools and the gun is in the high 90s condition, I'd say the cost of the letter is at least a wash and may be less than the premium. But, of course, that assumes a knowledgeable buyer and one who wants an SAO example.
I'll attach a photo of mine with its letter. The photo does not show the entire letter, but in the non-displayed final paragraph, Roy confirms the gun shipped as an SAO. The stocks on this revolver are correctly numbered.
Jack

jp-ak-albums-k-frame-target-revolvers-picture8339-model-14-3-sao-letter.jpg

JP@AK · Mar 25, 2013

pharmer said:
I think it's factory, can't see where someone (with the exception of a previous poster) would go through the trouble to convert the gun to SAO.

A surprising number of people did exactly that. The kits could be purchased in gun stores back in the 1960s and 1970s. I've run across examples that were converted using the correct replacement hammers, and examples that did the conversion but left the original stepped, double action hammer in place.
The only way to be certain that a Model 14 was originally configured as SAO is to get a letter - although the OP's marked box is a very encouraging sign!
Jack

29aholic · Mar 25, 2013

IMHO I don't think the premium would be any more than the ~$150.00 the SAO kit used to cost. I have an SAO 14-3 I traded for before either the dealer or I realized it was SAO. I would not have paid any more for the feature as personally I look upon it as a novelty. Comparing it to my other conventional guns I see no difference in trigger pulls in SA mode.
All that being said, it is a variant which is collectable in its own rite if you are putting together a Masterpiece collection. If you are I feel for you...the K32 is gonna hurt.

45Wheelgun · Mar 25, 2013

pharmer said:
I think it's factory, can't see where someone (with the exception of a previous poster) would go through the trouble to convert the gun to SAO.

JP@AK said:
A surprising number of people did exactly that. The kits could be purchased in gun stores back in the 1960s and 1970s. I've run across examples that were converted using the correct replacement hammers, and examples that did the conversion but left the original stepped, double action hammer in place.
The only way to be certain that a Model 14 was originally configured as SAO is to get a letter - although the OP's marked box is a very encouraging sign!
Jack

It is my opinion that many more were done outside the factory than inside. The kits were readily available and easy for the end user or the local gunsmith to install. Why go to the hassle of a special order gun when you local gun shop could fix you up? These were a blister package that would hang on the pegboard behind the counter. Hammer and trigger together. Simple swap.

We look at these things as collectors, but "back in the day" it was a shooter who wanted his gun SAO for competitive shooting. The quickest way would be to convert the gun you had using a kit at the local store, or to buy the gun already at the local store along with the kit.

I have personally been involved in at least 1/2 dozen Model 14's that were SAO and only one lettered as factory. I have gotten to the point where if it isn't on the box label and doesn't have a letter, I assume it isn't factory. I recently bought this gun thinking it wouldn't letter as an SAO and was surprised when it did. I didn't pay a premium for the SAO or the non-factory engraving. Paid the price of a shooter:

45wheelgun-albums-14-3-sao-engraved-picture6536-img-7391.jpg

Here is a picture that shows the difference between a stock hammer and a SAO hammer:

45wheelgun-albums-14-3-sao-engraved-picture6533-img-7395.jpg

Some folks would just remove the double action sear from the hammer and make their own SAO without purchasing the kit. There may have been more to it than that but you can see the visual evidence of the sear/spring/pin removal.

I would think the premium for your gun would be minimal (~$50) and more that it is "like new" in the original box than anything else. Still nice examples in original box from that period are bringing $500-$600 in these parts. Be advised there are plenty of unscrupulous individuals who would put a fake end label on a box so getting a letter is about the only way to prove it.

THREEDFLYER · Mar 25, 2013

SAO

29aholic said:
IMHO I don't think the premium would be any more than the ~$150.00 the SAO kit used to cost. I have an SAO 14-3 I traded for before either the dealer or I realized it was SAO. I would not have paid any more for the feature as personally I look upon it as a novelty. Comparing it to my other conventional guns I see no difference in trigger pulls in SA mode.
All that being said, it is a variant which is collectable in its own rite if you are putting together a Masterpiece collection. If you are I feel for you...the K32 is gonna hurt.

Good news is.....the K-32 is already in the stable!
Tom

pharmer · Mar 25, 2013

45Wheelgun said:
Here is a picture that shows the difference between a stock hammer and a SAO hammer:

.

Thanks for sharing all this detailed knowledge. My gun has the lower left hammer face. Even if it is proper a letter is proof. Joe

ruffbird · Mar 26, 2013

I purchased one of those kits some time ago.

Notice there is no sear in the hammer....

I installed this kit in my model 14-4 but it was never as smooth as the original parts, so
it was converted back!

THREEDFLYER · Mar 27, 2013

Great photos, thanks for sharing!
I have several K-38's to shoot so I may just go ahead and sell my SAO soon.
My target guns are all European and this one needs a good home!
Tom

29aholic · Mar 27, 2013

All of the K Masterpiece guns are wonderful shooters and in my case exceed my capabilities. I have owned about every target handgun you can buy for less than $3000 and dollar for dollar in my hands I could tell no difference.

PS I would love the chance to wring out a K32 some day.

viceunit · Mar 28, 2013

About 25 years ago I spotted a nice model 14 (don't remember what dash) at a LGS. I handled it and cycled it single action. I never tried the double action. It was in nice shape so I bought it. Later, I was surprised when it would not function in the double action mode. What the heck? It was either a factory SAO or converted. I was oblivious to the knowledge of SAO model 14's. I bought the parts to convert it to double action. It was a nice gun that I should have kept (really?) but traded it for an early 1897 Winchester shotgun that I no longer have either. After this experience, I always check the double action!

geoff40 · Mar 28, 2013

I am certainly no expert on them, but I've watched the threads about these over the years. There doesn't seem to be a premium on them to me. Not much if there is one.
I'd love to stumble across one some day, and I make it a point to check every 14 I see. Most of my shooting I do single action.

moosedog · Mar 28, 2013

I picked up a mint K-38 SA 14-3, in the late 80s at a show.
The dealer said that there was something wrong with the gun. He then picked it up to show me that when you pulled the trigger, it would not cycle properly. I paid him his asking price. I still have it.

HKSmith · Mar 28, 2013

I have a SA Model 14-2 that I bought new in 1966 at Caldor (a K-Mart type discount store that sold firearms at a 10% discount - this was unusual in that era). The gun is one of the most accurate handguns I've ever owned, including my Model 52. I've fired many thousands of reloads from wadcutters to Speer #8 +P+ loads through the gun and it's as tight as ever.

The trigger pull was about 2 pounds when I got the gun and is now a bit scary - you just think about it and it fires. I'd like to have the trigger restored to 2 pounds, but I'm afraid if I sent it back to S&W it would be returned with a politically correct 4 pound trigger.

I still have the original box with the paperwork and screwdriver; the end label identifies the gun as SA. I've never bothered lettering this gun since I bought it new, still use it, and have no intention of selling it.

model3sw · Jul 23, 2018

Hey, guys. I found a few ol, related thread on the k38 Single Action. Thought I'd bump them to the top. good stuff in here. Sal

Model 14-3 Single Action Only from factory

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