Air Force .38 Revolvers

Absalom · Apr 2, 2015

I'm just reading Eric Schlosser's book "Command and Control" about our nuclear arsenal during the Cold War.
According to this, (talking about the SAC in 1980) "the commander and the deputy commander at every Titan II site were issued .38 caliber revolvers, in case an intruder penetrated the underground complex or a crew member disobeyed orders".
I'm just curious whether these would have been the USAF-marked Model 15's that have been the subject of some earlier threads here, or whether anybody is aware of any other revolvers in the Air Force arsenal. Maybe some of our AF veterans know something more.

murphydog · Apr 2, 2015

They may have been the alloy M13 Aircrewman, the 2" model 56 (similar to a model 15), a U.S./U.S.A.F. stamped 4" model 15, or even a WW II era Victory Model. There are threads here with AF veterans commenting on what they carried and they will be along shortly

.

JP@AK · Apr 2, 2015

During Vietnam guys were carrying various different sidearms, but the standard AF issue revolver was the S&W Model 15 Combat Masterpiece. I personally carried a Model 15 during my two tours.
By 1980 I had been out for a long time, but I would be fairly confident that SAC missile site operations would have been issuing the Combat Masterpiece at that time. The AF possessed thousands of them. Whether they were all USAF-marked guns is a different question. I'm not convinced all of the Model 15s were so-marked.

kwill1911 · Apr 2, 2015

I agree with murphydog; there were a number of different .38 Special revolvers issued. This guy seems to have an Aircrewman:

Regards,
Kevin Williams

kwill1911 · Apr 2, 2015

So do these guys.

Pig Hunter · Apr 2, 2015

All the ones I saw were in a variation of a trooper holster, and a garrison belt hanging from the consoles. I don't remember seeing one out of the holster. but Security Police change over was topside as the crews did there thing downstairs. All USAF revolvers I saw in my 4 years were Mod.15 4". I can't remember if there was gov't or Air Force markings. All Magna grips. If our team was downstairs our rifles and ammo belts were locked up so only the crew would be armed. 2 revolvers so a person for each button was armed and could shoot someone off the other button to prevent an unapproved launch. Nobody would ever get through those blast doors, intruders were less of a chance than a wigged out crew member. And if that didn't work the Security teams had a way to prevent the launch from topside if we had enough notice. They said the reason SP's were so tough to deal with because we were never where we were supposed to be! lol Mark

THE PILGRIM · Apr 2, 2015

That was also the holster rig we had in SAC alert aircraft.
They were locked in the combat mission boxes with the mission data.
You normaly only saw them if you were involved in a box inventory.
Otherwise the box was locked and boxcar sealed.

XAVMECH · Apr 2, 2015

Model 15's

I served in the AF from 66-70 and don't believe I saw a single snub .38 among those issued to aircrew (SEA). All I saw were 4-inch Model 15's.
The holsters for the Model 13 Aircrewman snubs were definitely unique (like in the missle launch capsule pics previously posted). I'm curious when the last of those snubs were pulled from aircrew duty. Seems that the Navy folks had them a bit longer than the AF did, but that most were replaced by the 4-inch revolvers in late 50's and early 60's...

FloridaFlier · Apr 2, 2015

I flew C-141's from 72-77. At that time, the perceived threat was hijacking. All the aircrew guns were snubbies, but I was not in to it enough to look for the model numbers.

F224 · Apr 3, 2015

FloridaFlier said:
I flew C-141's from 72-77. At that time, the perceived threat was hijacking. All the aircrew guns were snubbies, but I was not in to it enough to look for the model numbers.

Same with the T-39 fleet where I was a crew chief. Our guys all carried M15's with two inch barrels. 1977-80.

kwill1911 · Apr 3, 2015

F224 said:
Same with the T-39 fleet where I was a crew chief. Our guys all carried M15's with two inch barrels. 1977-80.

Could those have actually been Model 56 revolvers? Very similar and made specifically for the USAF before 2" Model 15s were available.

Thanks to all the veterans weighing in on this topic.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

Absalom · Apr 3, 2015

Great info. Thanks to all contributors.

YeshuaIsa53 · Apr 3, 2015

Per the Third Edition of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, on page 180 under Variations, Model 14:The K-38 "Target" Masterpiece...

Small quantity of 4" barrel having Patridge front sight and "AFPG" markings, serial number K 339292 as one example, "AFPG" stands for "Air Force Premium Grade" and were marked by Air Force Armorers at Lackland AFB for the shooting team.

Don't know how this plays out as a service revolver marked Air Force, but I sure would like to have one of them for my collection. Just saying.

Page 181 has some information on the Model 15-1, 15-2, and 15-3 variances shipped to the Air Force; many of them going to Warner Robbins AFB. They mention there may be some faked markings out there. Go figure: nothing better to do?

kwill1911 · Apr 3, 2015

YeshuaIsa53 · Apr 3, 2015

kwill1911 said:

That's like holding a wild card in the hole! Hard to fathom they just cut the barrels off, but the crown must have been redone nicely?

kwill1911 · Apr 3, 2015

Yes, they were returned to S&W to have the barrels cut down so the crown is done like any other S&W revolver.

majick47 · Apr 4, 2015

Air Force 38 Revolvers

While stationed in the UK late 1960s I observed an Air Force NCO on courier duty armed with a 2" Colt Detective Special, my unit was issued 4" Model 15s.

DWalt · Apr 4, 2015

Over 30 years ago, I had an employee which did his AF service mainly in ICBM silos, and he was one of the guys with a launch key. He said that those people were armed against someone going berserk under the pressure at the wrong time. He said he saw that almost happen once during the Cuban missile crisis, and he did have to pull his revolver - but did not need to use it. I have no idea what revolver it was.

ispcapt · Apr 4, 2015

Anyone remember the SAC cops? They had to give those SAC guys some kind of perk to compensate for all they had to put up with.

j a · Apr 4, 2015

ispcapt ....

that is a very interesting picture. From the uniforms to the cross draw holsters. The white laces in the boots really draw your attention.
The guns look like they might have had Fitz fake stag grips? Any history on who designed the uniform and accessories?
Our youngest son wore the Security Forces badge proudly while serving in the AF. Here and over seas. JA

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