My friend just bought a model 14 still new in the box and serial numbered to the gun that was made in 1968. What has me confused is that it has a 4" barrel with out a Patridge front sight. I know they could be had with a 4" 5" 6" and 8 1/2" but what does he have without the target front sight? The frame is stamped Mod 14 and every thing looks perfect. Could this be a factory mis match or have any of you seen or heard of such a combo before? Thanks in advance, Lewis.....
......STRANGE MODEL 14.........
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Ashlander
Member
1040 in that configuration were produced for Dayton Police Supply in the serial number range K623337 - K624496.
Grayfox
US Veteran
4" Model 14s are rare, but not unheard of. I suspect that you have one of the famous Dayton guns although I can't remember the dates for those.
I have a 4" 14-3 shipped July 15, 1971 to Dave's House of Guns, Dallas, TX. Factory letter confirms that it is original. I believe, but can't prove, that it was an over run from a batch made for Olympic Distributors about that same time.
4" Model 14s just seem to pop up every once in a while for no particular reason. Other than special orders made for distributors, there is no real explanation.
Your friend's gun is well worth a factory letter.
I have a 4" 14-3 shipped July 15, 1971 to Dave's House of Guns, Dallas, TX. Factory letter confirms that it is original. I believe, but can't prove, that it was an over run from a batch made for Olympic Distributors about that same time.
4" Model 14s just seem to pop up every once in a while for no particular reason. Other than special orders made for distributors, there is no real explanation.
Your friend's gun is well worth a factory letter.
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Small runs of 4" model 14s with ramp front sights were made over the years; a 1968 should be a 14-3 but never say never with S & W. One 4" 14-3 of about the same era recently sold online for about $1100. A letter of authenticity would confirm this but if he is sure he has the original box that pretty much confirms this.
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Several possibilities here. First, it could just be one of the rare ones as the factory did make them that way occasionally. It could be one of the so called Hanen Specials, also known as a "Dayton Gun," which had Baughman Ramp front sights on the ramp base, but on a Model 10 heavy barrel mated to the Model 14 frame, which resulted in a very heavy barrel. It could be a modified LAPD revolver, but the fact that the box matches probably rules this out as a possibility.
Simplest explanation is likely the correct explanation. It is just one of the rare ones the factory made this way.
The main difference between the 4 inch Model 14 and the 4 inch Model 15, or Combat Masterpiece, is that the 15 had a tapered barrel, whereas the 14 had the straight-walled barrel of the K38 Masterpiece. The Hanen Special used a Model 14 frame, but a Model 10 heavy barrel with a ramp sight mounted, which made for an extra heavy arrangement at the time. The extra weight was thought to be helpful in controlling recoil and in point-shooting.
EDIT: When I re-read the OP, it does not specify that the revolver in question has a ramp sight - only that it does not have the Patridge front sight. My answer assumes (yeah, I know. . .) that the revolver described by the OP has a ramp front sight. The OP also does not say what the box says about the sights. Therefore, it would be helpful to know if the revolver has a ramp front sight, and how the box is marked. "A picture is worth a thousand words."
Simplest explanation is likely the correct explanation. It is just one of the rare ones the factory made this way.
The main difference between the 4 inch Model 14 and the 4 inch Model 15, or Combat Masterpiece, is that the 15 had a tapered barrel, whereas the 14 had the straight-walled barrel of the K38 Masterpiece. The Hanen Special used a Model 14 frame, but a Model 10 heavy barrel with a ramp sight mounted, which made for an extra heavy arrangement at the time. The extra weight was thought to be helpful in controlling recoil and in point-shooting.
EDIT: When I re-read the OP, it does not specify that the revolver in question has a ramp sight - only that it does not have the Patridge front sight. My answer assumes (yeah, I know. . .) that the revolver described by the OP has a ramp front sight. The OP also does not say what the box says about the sights. Therefore, it would be helpful to know if the revolver has a ramp front sight, and how the box is marked. "A picture is worth a thousand words."
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Jerry M
Member
I did see two different examples in the early 1980's. These were a small run by S&W not cut down barrels.
Good luck
Jerry
Good luck
Jerry
We've had some informative discussions on this topic that may be worthy to link:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...-ordered-barrel-lengths.html?highlight=dayton
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...-model-14-4-inch-barrel.html?highlight=dayton
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...ch-14-3-update-lettered.html?highlight=dayton
Hope these help,
Russ
Engine49guy
Member
Im betting your friends 14-3 has a serial that starts with 1K ?
The HB Hanen specials were all 14-2's with smooth barrel ribs,
The four inch Model 14-3 is a shorter version of the 6" Model 14 with same grooved barrel rib and a pinned Baughman ramp.
The Hanen Special is very desirable but I actually see less four inch 14-3's pop up than four inch 14-2's,
On a side note the four inch Model 15-5 and 15-6 are its twin sans barrel pin.
The HB Hanen specials were all 14-2's with smooth barrel ribs,
The four inch Model 14-3 is a shorter version of the 6" Model 14 with same grooved barrel rib and a pinned Baughman ramp.
The Hanen Special is very desirable but I actually see less four inch 14-3's pop up than four inch 14-2's,
On a side note the four inch Model 15-5 and 15-6 are its twin sans barrel pin.
bananaman
Member
Welcome to the FORUM! Why are there no pictures on this item? Enjoy your 14! Bob
RAPOM65
Member
14-3 4 inch " Heavy Masterpice" find
Roughly two years ago I stumbled across a listing for a 4" 14-3 on GB from a seller out of Mass. and was ecstatic to be the sole bidder. At that time I began an extensive online search for info specifically on the 4" Model 14-3. The series of posts linde (Russ) and others made ref these pistols back in 2009 -2012 was extremely informative. To summarize: In July 1971 three shipments were made, one each, to three S&W distributors: Olympic Wholesale, Los Angeles, Cal. (20 units), Dave's House of Guns, Dallas, TX (no # in my notes) and Gil Hebard Guns, Knoxville, IL. (50 units, all blued, 10 of which were equipped with Target Triggers and Target Hammers). Generally these are thought to have been made up as a marketing test for possible production. 8 members have reported 9 pistols out of the probable 100 or so making up the three shipments. Other than small SN clusters in the 1K28xxx, 1K32xxx, 1K74xxx and 1K77xxx ranges, reported in discussions of lettered guns from these shipments, I have located no references to any others. In one of his posts linde encouraged members to keep an eye out for one of the 10 TT and TH equipped guns included in the shipment to Gil Hebard Guns. I believe my gun MAY be one of those 10. SN listings indicate my pistol, 1K40910, as an early 1971 manufacture and places it within the SN range of the three known Special Order shipments to those dealers. My revolver is in very good mechanical condition and is equipped as follows:
The 4" barrel is a straight wall wide rib "Heavy" profile identical to my 1952 K38 Heavy Masterpiece in every way. The serrations along the top of the barrel extend from the frame to, and then up the ramp of, the pinned Baughman front sight. The polishing is so well done there is no indication of pins until strong light is brought to bear. When viewed from the muzzle a light parting line between the sight base and barrel is barely visible so it is not a one piece forging like latter Model 15 heavy barrels. The roll markings on both sides are centered along the length of the barrel. It is very strange that the "Smith & Wesson" on the LH side of the barrel is a bit lower than normal. If viewed from the muzzle the normal position of the roll markings would be at 3 and 9 o'clock, on this barrel they are more like 4 and 9. I have never seen this on another Smith and is an area of further research on my part.
The rear sight is a plain black adjustable blade with the correct scallop profile for that time period. The front sight ramp tip has been painted red.
The trigger is a case hardened, serrated, wide target (0.50")
The hammer is a case hardened semi-target. This is what gives me pause and why I say I MAY have one of the TT TH models.
The barrel is pinned and, of course, the chambers are not recessed
It is clearly marked with the serial number and model number 14-3 inside the yoke. The serial number also appears on the bottom of the grip frame and on the back of the ejector star.
The grips are checkered Walnut, non-diamond PC (Plains Clothes) Modified Magna. Would anyone know if this is correct vs the std. Magna on these 4 inch models? Unfortunately they are not numbered to the gun. The numbers 99365 is stamped into the bottom inside of the right grip panel. There is 10 line serrations on the front and back of the grip frame.
It has a bit of light wear at the muzzle and sharper edges. Under strong light general wear to the overall finish is more pronounced. The polish is of high grade and the bluing is a deep dark black with no hint of blue in it at all. In certain light conditions it appears like it is black chromed. Check out the picture of the reflection of the cylinder in the side of the frame. It's almost mirror like. The bluing along the bottom of the grip frame along both sides is mottled. This is apparent in the photos without the stock panels installed. There are no nicks or scratches of any significance... it has the appearance of a well used and cared for range gun.
The Single Actions on my K-38 and 28 are wonderful. This gun is much better. The proverbial "glass rod snapping" with just the right amount of pressure required to get things moving. The Double Action is buttery smooth. I suspect, if this is one of the 10 and they were basically concept marketing test, that the factory may have tuned up their actions before shipping them out.
I desperately want to send a letter request off to Roy Jinks but haven't done it yet. I'm still gathering as much info as I can find on these revolvers. I'm hoping this post will generate even more info from the membership. Anyone have anything they would care to share?
Roughly two years ago I stumbled across a listing for a 4" 14-3 on GB from a seller out of Mass. and was ecstatic to be the sole bidder. At that time I began an extensive online search for info specifically on the 4" Model 14-3. The series of posts linde (Russ) and others made ref these pistols back in 2009 -2012 was extremely informative. To summarize: In July 1971 three shipments were made, one each, to three S&W distributors: Olympic Wholesale, Los Angeles, Cal. (20 units), Dave's House of Guns, Dallas, TX (no # in my notes) and Gil Hebard Guns, Knoxville, IL. (50 units, all blued, 10 of which were equipped with Target Triggers and Target Hammers). Generally these are thought to have been made up as a marketing test for possible production. 8 members have reported 9 pistols out of the probable 100 or so making up the three shipments. Other than small SN clusters in the 1K28xxx, 1K32xxx, 1K74xxx and 1K77xxx ranges, reported in discussions of lettered guns from these shipments, I have located no references to any others. In one of his posts linde encouraged members to keep an eye out for one of the 10 TT and TH equipped guns included in the shipment to Gil Hebard Guns. I believe my gun MAY be one of those 10. SN listings indicate my pistol, 1K40910, as an early 1971 manufacture and places it within the SN range of the three known Special Order shipments to those dealers. My revolver is in very good mechanical condition and is equipped as follows:
The 4" barrel is a straight wall wide rib "Heavy" profile identical to my 1952 K38 Heavy Masterpiece in every way. The serrations along the top of the barrel extend from the frame to, and then up the ramp of, the pinned Baughman front sight. The polishing is so well done there is no indication of pins until strong light is brought to bear. When viewed from the muzzle a light parting line between the sight base and barrel is barely visible so it is not a one piece forging like latter Model 15 heavy barrels. The roll markings on both sides are centered along the length of the barrel. It is very strange that the "Smith & Wesson" on the LH side of the barrel is a bit lower than normal. If viewed from the muzzle the normal position of the roll markings would be at 3 and 9 o'clock, on this barrel they are more like 4 and 9. I have never seen this on another Smith and is an area of further research on my part.
The rear sight is a plain black adjustable blade with the correct scallop profile for that time period. The front sight ramp tip has been painted red.
The trigger is a case hardened, serrated, wide target (0.50")
The hammer is a case hardened semi-target. This is what gives me pause and why I say I MAY have one of the TT TH models.
The barrel is pinned and, of course, the chambers are not recessed
It is clearly marked with the serial number and model number 14-3 inside the yoke. The serial number also appears on the bottom of the grip frame and on the back of the ejector star.
The grips are checkered Walnut, non-diamond PC (Plains Clothes) Modified Magna. Would anyone know if this is correct vs the std. Magna on these 4 inch models? Unfortunately they are not numbered to the gun. The numbers 99365 is stamped into the bottom inside of the right grip panel. There is 10 line serrations on the front and back of the grip frame.
It has a bit of light wear at the muzzle and sharper edges. Under strong light general wear to the overall finish is more pronounced. The polish is of high grade and the bluing is a deep dark black with no hint of blue in it at all. In certain light conditions it appears like it is black chromed. Check out the picture of the reflection of the cylinder in the side of the frame. It's almost mirror like. The bluing along the bottom of the grip frame along both sides is mottled. This is apparent in the photos without the stock panels installed. There are no nicks or scratches of any significance... it has the appearance of a well used and cared for range gun.
The Single Actions on my K-38 and 28 are wonderful. This gun is much better. The proverbial "glass rod snapping" with just the right amount of pressure required to get things moving. The Double Action is buttery smooth. I suspect, if this is one of the 10 and they were basically concept marketing test, that the factory may have tuned up their actions before shipping them out.
I desperately want to send a letter request off to Roy Jinks but haven't done it yet. I'm still gathering as much info as I can find on these revolvers. I'm hoping this post will generate even more info from the membership. Anyone have anything they would care to share?
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I would love to have a revolver that had been shipped to Gil Hebard. As a teenager, I would lovingly study his catalog for hours and hours on end. That's where my love of Smith & Wesson revolvers sprouted.
RAPOM65
Member
:
RAPOM65
Member
RAPOM65
Member
RAPOM65
Member
My love of Smiths began when I inherited my fathers 1952 K38 with non relieved, diamond, target stocks which he carried as a security guard in some of the housing projects in LA in the early 50s. I'm a total junkie now.
A few more:
A few more:
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69905 is an assembly number; you'll probably find it elsewhere on the gun, particularly on the yoke arm. The others are assembler, fitter and inspector stamps. My favorite one of these is a heart that I have seen occasionally.
Nice gun, by the way
.You certainly have one beautiful circa 1971 4" Model 14-3 . . . an outstanding example and we appreciate you sharing it with us. As you learn more . . . from your factory letter of authenticity and other sources . . . please share that information as well.
The 1/2" wide trigger sure fits the target trigger description but the 3/8" wide hammer spur (semi-target) was standard on target grade revolvers of this period . . . an optional 1/2" wide spur was considered a target hammer. Of course, hammers and triggers can be changed out based on the shooter's preference.
It would be hard to improve on those beautiful modified magnas but I don't believe modified (PC) magnas would have been original on your 14-3. Except for the 14-2 Dayton Guns, all of the 14-3s I've seen were standard magnas. (footnote: S&W pretty much followed the convention that fixed sighted guns were shipped with modified magnas and target models standard magnas, however, in 1952 when the modified magnas were introduced, either modified or standard magnas could be ordered for the same price . . . don't know if that applied as late as 1971 or not).
Russ
RAPOM65
Member
Thank you for your inputs on the assembly stamps, hammer configurations and the PC Magnas. The only other stamps I did not show is a G1 and the assembly number on the inside of the yoke which match the ones on the grip frame (69905). So, No Bueno on the PC Magnas. Oh well, I like em just the same and they are my only pair so I guess they will stay put.
Time to get off my lazy arse and send off that request to Roy. I will let you all know when anything new turns up.
Time to get off my lazy arse and send off that request to Roy. I will let you all know when anything new turns up.
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