I just won an auction for a LNIB 19-3 6" made in 1969. I shoot bullseye and would like to use the revolver occasionally to shoot the centerfire match.

I have a bullseye friend that said he used to have a 19 that he did a trigger job on using Jerry Miculek videos as a reference. He said he was able to get the DA pull down to about 4 pounds, that would be great.

Who do you guys recommend for such a job?

Couple of thoughts:

If you are thinking of bullseye with a 19, you may want to consider adding a target hammer to the gun.

Look to see if there are any local gunsmiths who do revolver action work, otherwise, one of the best know's are Clark Custom Guns.

I hesitate to recommend doing your own action job after watching just one video without having some hands-on time and understanding all the nuiances of how the parts fit together and the critical nature of the angles that must be maintained on the hammer/trigger engagement surfaces.

Ask multiple shooters at a Bullseye match and take an average.. About all the videos he has show is how to swap out springs and how to play with the strain screw. A proper trigger job requires stones and a jig to maintain proper critical angles. You will want a pro that has successfully performed multiple trigger jobs on a Smith & Wesson revolver. That said, there's nothing wrong with playing around with different springs yourself on a target gun. Maybe that's all it will need as Smiths already have very good actions right out of the box.

A search will net you a good list as this subject comes up often...

Off the cuff, I'd look at Frank Glenn or Nelson Ford.

As an aside, it would be remarkable to tune a S&W's double action to 4lbs and not get consistent misfires even with the softest primers.

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Pickpocket

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm not going to attempt myself. I don't mind swapping springs out or even light polishing but changing angles isn't something I want to do. And as you guys say it will require jigs that often cost more than a trigger job.

I have used several gunsmiths as well as doing some work myself in the past 20 years.
My conclusion;
Spend money on ammo and shoot! Don't do anything internally until you put 100,000rds through the gun.
100K rds are not that much, by the way. If you shoot 100/day, every day, you'll consume 100K in less than 3 years and by then, I guarantee you'll out shoot everyone who's reading this.

Nelson Ford. I cannot say enough good things about his work.

Isn't 2700 shot with a revolver generally done in single action mode? Thus the wide hammer spur and ribbed wide trigger on the target guns (17, 14 & 25).

Nothing wrong with wanting a light double action pull (although doubtful you'd get reliable ignition with 4.5# pull), but not really necessary for the OP's intended purpose. It's pretty easy to safely get into the 2.5# - 3# range single action pull, without going too light in D/A, with just spring changes.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

If you're going to have a professional do the job, make sure you send it to a real professional. Someone who could be considered a master revolver smith. I would only go with Frank Glenn for Colts and S&Ws. He has good prices and great turn around, not to mention the quality work.

You could easily do it yourself though but would need to dedicate time to reading and understanding the appropriate manuals. The S&W action design can pretty much be tweaked sufficiently with just spring changes and adjustments. You can do a little bit of stoning to smooth up internals but unless the inside is just awful rough, the difference won't be too substantial. There's some other tricks you can do to make it smoother too if you start researching and they're pretty minor adjustments.

Good luck. I always rather learn and do myself than pay someone to do it for me.

Well I read about Nelson Ford and Frank Glenn. I read several reviews saying Nelson was a monster jerk and had horrible customer service, not saying he doesn't do good work though. I called and spoke with Frank, I'll likely be sending it to him. Only thing I wasn't thrilled about is that he said typically an action job only gets the DA down to 8-9 pounds. When it comes time to send it to him I may see if there's anything he can do to get it a tad lower.

Regarding its use for bullseye, there are 3 types of fire, slow fire, timed fire and rapid fire. The slow fire would obviously be SA only. The timed fire you have 20 seconds to fire 5 shots so it could feasibly be done with SA as well. Rapid fire on the other hand is 5 shots in 10 seconds and would definitely be DA.

Honestly shooting a revolver for Bullseye will be for fun only, I'll probably use it for small local matches, kind of a throwback to the good old days. They do have Distinguished Revolver matches but they're pretty difficult to find.

Those reviews are complete and utter BS. My guess is guys with taurus revolvers and the like were mad because he turned down their work.

I was just in Nelsons shop last Friday and he is a great guy. With great customer service. I lived in the Phoenix area for 20 years and he is the man for smith revolvers and he shoots target pistol competitively as well so he knows how to work one.

He is working on my 2d and 3d smith this month. So he will have worked on all of mine and I cannot say enough good things about him as a person and as a craftsman.

That's my real life experience from last week, Friday June 16th. Spent about an hour talking with him.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess that's the good and bad thing about the internet, every joe has a voice that lasts for a long time. A few bad internet reviews can make a otherwise good business look not so good.

My $0.02, get a Wolf spring pack for less than $20 and see what happens. It won't be as good as a professional action job but it will get you pretty close. Shooting about 1K rounds down the pipe will help also.

I recently installed the reduced recoil pack in a Model 17. I had been reluctant to do so because of ignition reliability. It now has a near perfect trigger and only 2 FTF out of a box of 333 rounds (which is probably better than before the swap).

Nelson Ford, AKA "The Gunsmith" operates out of a shop in north Phoenix. His two specialties are S&W revolvers and 1911 pistols. I have had numerous guns fine-tuned by him, and have always been very happy with the results. He knows his stuff.

He's also fun to talk to - you will find him very eccentric, but then, that's to my taste - very strong opinions on virtually anything!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Spring change is the first thing I do to most of my revolvers.

I just found out my buddy still has the Jerry Miculek DVD. I may watch it and see if I feel comfortable in doing the work myself. What sucks about shipping it to a smith is all the shipping fees, anymore it costs a fortune to ship pistols.

I don't think the Miculek video is anything but changing to his brand of spring. Of course you have to know how to get the gun apart and back together to do even that.

The revolver guys on Benos say 6 lbs is a pretty light DA. You see claims of 4 lb but everything has to be just right. Apex used to do very light DAs but at high cost. And it looks like they are doing so well on parts they don't have time to gunsmith one at a time.

Well the Miculek video is 110 minutes long so I would assume it goes over more than springs swaps. I'll let you guys know once I watch it.

Here's a 6 minute version that covers spring swaps.

Revolver shooters back in the day fired all three courses single action. A number of the "old time" shooters had king hammers and triggers installed which gave a faster lock time and a much shorter hammer cocking. They worked great single action but were too light on the double action. They also would typically go with a set of Herret stocks as these tend to keep the thumb up higher making the SA cocking action faster.

I doubt too many competitive Bullseye shooters today use revolvers in the centerfire course. Most everyone uses a .45 for both CF and .45 simply because they get better scores by using the same gun.

I shot Bullseye for many years (way back when many shooters did use K-38s in the CF stage) and I used a stock K-38 in the CF stage. I never felt any need to screw around with its lockwork or springs to get a light DA trigger pull. As previously stated, in slow and timed, you are probably going to be shooting in single action anyway. I agree with satoken - use the money you'd spend on a gunsmith for ammo instead.

I have shot, and plan to return to NRA 2700 3 gun bullseye matches. I have used, and will use a K22 for the rimfire matches, a K38 for the centerfire matches, and my Trophy Match for the 45 matches. I learned how to fire all 3 stages single action, there is no way I would try to shoot the timed and rapid fire stages double action. I have a Model 14-4 3T that I use for bullseye, and I am contemplating installing a Single Action kit.

Engage in a little practice with your 19, and you will be able to do single action with time to spare and be in the 90% range during the rapid fire stages. You will notice a significant improvement in your score if you use a target trigger and hammer over a service or semi-target hammer.

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Judge control not gun control!

For those who claim a 4 lb DA trigger job, ask them how long that will last? Any trigger that light will not last and be reliable. 6-8 lbs id about the best you can get and have it reliable over the long haul.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Zane you don't say where you live so I don't want to recommend somebody who lives a 1000 miles away. I have a Model 17-4 that I thought had a good single action trigger but the DA trigger was not smooth and it was heavy so I had a very good gunsmith who is no longer with us do an action and trigger job, the difference was night and day. When he was done the single action was even better and the DA trigger pull was better and the gun as a whole was much nicer to shoot. I would ask around your area and see who does good work. The K-Frames are not hard to tune if the tuner knows what they are doing and it is money well spent in my opinion (which with 5 bucks with get you a large coffee at Starbucks). Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for all the input. The 19 won't be a serious bullseye gun for me, I've just wanted a revolver for a couple years and once I get it there's no reason not to shoot it in my small local matchs, the larger regional matches I'll still with my match auto pistols.

Also I live in middle Tennessee.

I know plenty of shooters using revolvers and a good number who are revolver distinguished or in that degree of skill.
A factory smith as is is more than sufficient trigger wise to be effective in bullseye and I know NO ONE using double action in any stage of the national match course including the rapid fire. I use a 17 for .22 and a 14 for center Fire in bullseye and my rapid fires are done well within the 10 second limit in single action.
S&W even made special order single action only model 14's for bullseye

Keep in mind that replacement Hammers and Triggers are now high dollar items. Target H&Ts even more so. Back in the day, when revolvers were king, every good gun shop had a rack on the counter with sights and grips and Hammers and Triggers. Midway still has/shows K-frame hammers but not target. I ordered one a few months ago to replace one on a broken model 10. If you buy one from most places it will be out of a used gun and who knows what condition it will be in. So, buy what you need and then keep the ones that came with the gun. Once the stones and files come out--you can't go back. And a revolver with push off will not be looked on with a smile by you or a match official.

Jerry Miculek's video titled "Trigger Job" is a very complete description of how to polish the internals to obtain a very smooth double action pull. Those who have guessed it is just about spring changes haven't watched it. Jerry goes into much detail on how to get the DA pull to be smooth. He also states in the video that 8-9 pounds is about the lower limit for a S&W double action pull that is in anyway reliable. Jerry Kuhnhausen (who wrote the S&W gunsmithing bible) also states in his DVD "Gunsmithing the S&W J,K,L,N Frame Revolvers much the same about the lower limits of the DA pull. It is the smoothness of the pull that really matters, not so much the lower weight limit of the pull.

Both video's are excellent and it really doesn't take all that much mechanical skill to replicate the work that either of the gents do, just some patience and attention to detail. It also does not require jigs to maintain any angles to get the DA pull smooth and reasonable. Both gents go into detailed explanations.

Have you ever tried shooting double action timed and rapid fire at 25 yards? That's a whole new ballgame to just keep it in the black. I shot Bullseye for over 50 years and using a revolver was difficult to say the least.

Stu

That's why this was invented!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I've never shot Bullseye matches but I know I can shoot 5 rounds in 10 seconds single action with a M19 or M66. Both guns do have Herrett grips,
the 19 has the style with the thumb rest, the 66 has the standard Shooting Stars. Practice, Practice

Clark Custom Guns has been know to do a nice target trigger job. Princeton, Louisiana.
The one they did for me is so much better than anything I did it isn't even funny.
I shot NRA Bullseye matches actively for about 12 years , those folks are target trigger pro's .
Gary

John:

All these years of collecting S&Ws and now I learn that they make something other than revolvers??? Who'd a thunk it?

BTW - that is a beautiful Model 52 - and I guess it's kind of revolver-ish since it shoots a 38 Special!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Indeed. THAT is a competition pistol capable of winning matches.
Most folks I knew who attempted to shoot bullseye with a revolver shot
it single action. I don't think I ever met anyone who shot bullseye DA.
No doubt, there have been, but they would be the exception rather than the rule.

Stu

That's been my experience as well. You want to do polishing on the relevant surfaces, you NEVER want to change engagemenet angles on hammer/trigger faces. Also change to lighter springs, the Wolff RP mainsprings work well.

APEX makes some reduced mass hammers that (allegedly) will yield a 4# DA pull with reliable ignition.

Smith & Wesson Revolvers

Well I spoke with Nelson for about 10 minutes this evening. Its obvious he knows his stuff inside and out. He does seems a bit opinionated and will talk over you some however he is pleasant to talk to, I can see how a few people have had an issue with him over the years. I'm going to watch the Miculek DVD since my buddy already has it, if I don't feel 100% comfortable with the task it will go to Nelson.

@zane,

I can respect your wanting to do your own trigger job. HOWEVER, you need to subscribe to the teachings of Murphy. Even though you are paying attention, you have to accept the reality that the first few times, you are going to mess up. Can I presume that your Model 19 is an older one, probably with a case hardened hammer and trigger? Consider the possibility that you mess up the sear surfaces ... and your 'smith of choice can't correct your mistakes ... how much will the replacement parts cost on top of his labor? I would strongly suggest that you consider having a pro do your trigger job to begin with, it could be less expensive!

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Judge control not gun control!

Good points.

This is the man you should send your Smith and Wesson to if you need trigger work.

Denny Reichard, aka Rolling Thunder.

This video is outstanding for its entertainment factor.

Tuning a S&W 686 .357 Magnum - YouTube

I just picked up my 617 from Nelson Ford and it's as smooth as butter!
I very much like talking with Nelson and love his stories but if I was a Liberal it probably wouldn't go as well.
I like him and he damn sure knows what he is doing!

Old School Bullseye revolver shooters practiced their SA by dry firing A LOT! A good revolver shooter can cock and fire all 5 shots within the RF 10 seconds. In dry fire, the gun will barely move.
You can't buy points. Practice!

I posted this some time ago.

How to REALLY shoot a Pistol! (Film)

Watch Bill MacMillan show you how it's done.

I guess I'm some confused by this desire for a super action on a .357 that I'm assuming is going to be eating .38 Specials----and I'm surprised nobody else has expressed some curiosity about the same thing--------or are you going to be doing your own .38 Special loads in Magnum cases?

Ralph Tremaine

Been shooting bullseye with a revolver on and off about 40 years now. It is all done single action, and the stock SA trigger typical of a k frame is more than ip to the task. No need to mess with it at all.

For what it’s worth, a local gunsmith got the DA on my M&P R8 down to 7 lbs & the only primers that go bang 100% of the time are Federal 100’s.

Just a suggestion... consider shooting it as is before having any work done. You might be very pleased with it after firing it enough to become accustomed to the trigger and everything else. A trigger job may or may not help, but it's never a replacement for good technique and shooter skill.