I Continue to Suck with a J Frame

kbm6893 · Apr 21, 2018

I've had a Model 36, a Model 642, and now this Model 60. I love the look and history behind the older ones, but I suck shooting them.

Here is my model 60. Made in 1975. It came with factory stocks numbered to gun. With only factory stocks, my middle finger got thumped by the trigger guard on every shot.

So I added a Tyler T grip adapter. No more thumping. No better accuracy.

Then I bought the Pachmayr Compac Professionals. No better accuracy.

I only shoot my 158 grain mild reloads, generally. But I have shot some 130 grain Winchester White Box. No difference in accuracy.

I know this is a close up defensive gun, and I know J frames take practice. But how much practice? 60 rounds today on this target at 20 feet. Most shot as if self defense and pretty quick. But at least 10 slow fire. Single action. Double action. Doesn't matter. Trigger finger is a bit raw.

Here is the gun in my hand and my grip. I've adjusted grip. Position of trigger finger. No difference.

What do I do? I have other guns to shoot, and get more enjoyment out of shooting them. The J frame is a sweet looking gun, but I suck with it. 20 feet is a joke to have groups like this.

Andy Lowry · Apr 21, 2018

I didn't get better with them until I put a laser on one. Then it was pretty obvious that my trigger control was shoddy.

kbm6893 · Apr 21, 2018

Andy Lowry said:
I didn't get better with them until I put a laser on one. Then it was pretty obvious that my trigger control was shoddy.

Yeah. I was better with a laser grip on the 642, but how bad can my trigger control be in single action? I remember dry firing the 642 with the grip on, and the dot didn't move much.

And the grip makes the gun much less concealable. At least my LG305 did.

With a 4" K frame, they're nearly going into one hole. Subcompact 9MM also dead on. Even the Bodyguard .380 that everyone complains about the trigger, much more accurate.

snubbyfan · Apr 21, 2018

Andy Lowry said:
I didn't get better with them until I put a laser on one. Then it was pretty obvious that my trigger control was shoddy.

Agreed. I put a Laserlyte laser on my carry 442 and used that for dry fire practice.

I'd put the red dot on something 'bout 7 yards away and work on keeping the red dot on target all the way through the trigger pull and break.
Worked for me.

kbm6893 · Apr 21, 2018

snubbyfan said:
Agreed. I put a Laserlyte laser on my carry 442 and used that for dry fire practice.

I'd put the red dot on something 'bout 7 yards away and work on keeping the red dot on target all the way through the trigger pull and break.
Worked for me.

Can you get that same group if you turn the laser off?

bigggbbruce · Apr 21, 2018

I don't know... If you take that target and align the bullseye over your heart, I see a dead man.

Good enough in my book unless your getting paid to be better at it.

But a guess would be not to wrap so much of your trigger finger in the trigger may help pull it more right.

KSDeputy · Apr 21, 2018

These were made as "belly" guns. It wasn't until the introduction of the laser that the useful range of these which was about 8-12', improved to 15-20'. When I started in law enforcement back in the early 70's the useful range of these was about 12'. The sights were rarely used, they are more a point and shoot gun. I love mine, and recently bought a new one after I sold my original model, which I sold to finance a semi-auto when law enforcement changed from revolvers. I love this revolver.

Old cop · Apr 21, 2018

While your target will not win any prizes it is good enough to show you can defend yourself w/this J frame. Try standard paper plates at 3, 5 & 7 yards. Shooting as fast as you can empty the gun, combat reload w/a speedstrip or speedloader, and repeat. Slow down as distance increases. The goal is to keep all your rounds on the paper plate.

DumpStick · Apr 21, 2018

I'm right-handed. Every time I shot a target like that, it reminded me to change my grip on the weapon. Looking from above, I have to rotate the gun clockwise in my hand - i.e - put the butt closer to the meat of my thumb.

Mind you, I said "closer to", not "into" the meat of my thumb.

I also have to think about the way I contact the trigger, and concentrate on a straight pull.

kbm6893 · Apr 21, 2018

bigggbbruce said:
I don't know... If you take that target and align the bullseye over your heart, I see a dead man.

Good enough in my book unless your getting paid to be better at it.

But a guess would be not to wrap so much of your trigger finger in the trigger may help pull it more right.

Yeah. That pic was with my phone in one hand and gun in other. I've tried all different positions, from tip of finger down to first joint. No real difference.

What gets me is I am a very good shot. Not Hickock45 or anything, but fist sized groups at 20 yards no problem. I shoot the Bodyguard .380 much better.

snubbyfan · Apr 21, 2018

kbm6893 said:
Can you get that same group if you turn the laser off?

That is with the laser off. I only used it for dry fire practice.

jinx · Apr 21, 2018

I use a model 36 for summer carry and I agree with a poster above. They were for 8-12 ft. Might say a last ditch firearm.Now the standard seems to be the famous 7 yards. Lasers have helped a lot as was mentioned.
I believe any body that can get groups like some of those pictured above have really done something. These guns aren't target guns and were never meant to be.
Personally, I think they should have come with a 3 inch barrel as standard. That extra inch does wonders in accuracy and bullet performance and is just as easy to conceal.

H Richard · Apr 21, 2018

I recommrnd removing the serrations from the trigger, polish smooth, and try to find stocks fhat fit your hand, then practice.

Old Corp · Apr 21, 2018

Consider myself a pretty fair handgun shooter. Small J frames for me have always required the most investment in training and trigger time.
I've found them to be quite accurate, but require a little more from you as to adherence to fundamentals. Itty-bitty sights, small frame and grips and the miniscule sight radius all conspire against the shooter.

Stick with it, you'll be stacking rounds soon.

Backlighting · Apr 21, 2018

I have the model 638 for EDC. Although I don't really "enjoy" regular practice with it I consider it a necessary evil. I usually post my targets 3-5 yards away and am satisfied if I can hit them consistently & realize I'll never be nearly as good as Hickok 45.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCq7LJgbvCA[/ame]

zogger · Apr 21, 2018

I suggest you get a laser bullet (like from Laser Ammo) and practice with that. Much easier (and cheaper) to practice.

RGVshooter · Apr 21, 2018

Trigger control. You need to learn trigger control. Squeeze the trigger, don't jerk it. Focus on the front sight. When shooting a short barrel snubby, trigger control plays a even more important factor on accuracy. Longer barreled revolvers are a little bit more forgiving. Snubbie not so much.

Adding a grip or laser is not a substitute for practice. Grab some snap caps and start dry firing practice around the house. Focus on an object across the room, aim and squeeze the trigger, when the gun goes "click"! Your front sight should still be on the object you're pointing at. I guarantee when you're pulling the trigger, that front sight is moving on you. Keep practicing.

Lt JL · Apr 21, 2018

My BUG was/is a Model 40 no dash. It's really hard to shoot. I can finally keep them all on the 7 yard pie plate after maybe 30 years of off and on trying. it never much bothered me though, I consider it primarily for "get off me" range. If I don't get them with the shot, I'll set them on fire with the muzzle blast. I use 158 grain LSWC bullets. You might try practicing with full wadcutters for a while. It's easy to get a flinch from a J frame, especially an alloy one like an Airweight.

rwsmith · Apr 21, 2018

Try.....

Dry fire practice, maybe a two handed grip. I think j frames are an 'acid test'. Totally unforgiving and it's all up to the the shooter. If you improve you will have accomplished something.

With any other gun I've 'isolated' my trigger finger from my other two hands. But with a J frame as soon as I get to the trigger release, holding the small gun makes it shift ever so slightly. If I work on that I may surprise myself.

Rpg · Apr 21, 2018

J frames are among the most difficult handguns to shoot well.

They are small, have lousy triggers and poor sights.

I modify my j frames with a trigger job by someone who knows how (this isn’t a do it your self deal), I also have the serrations on the trigger removed and the trigger surface smoothed and radiused and add a Tyler t to the stock magnas.

It takes a good deal of practice, even with the modified gun, to shoot well.

The elements that need particular attention are the flash sight picture and double action trigger control: the firing stroke.

These aren’t used as target pistols: they’re self defense guns. Speed of use is a big part of the technique.

Laser sights are very slow although they will produce nice groups on the target.

I much prefer the sights (such as they are) on the gun. You needn’t align the sights precisely at sd ranges: but you must see your front sight when you shoot.

I Continue to Suck with a J Frame

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