Do these guys know what they are talking about? GunBroker # 117134152

Some GunGuru at Gander Mountain says this is one of the "Jack Lloyd" series of Model 58s that has a "round butt"... Anyone ever hear of these... I've collected M58s since the early 70s and never saw anything about this...

I have written asking for a picture of the frame with grips off.

Bob

Do these guys know what they are talking about? GunBroker # 117134152

Some GunGuru at Gander Mountain says this is one of the "Jack Lloyd" series of Model 58s that has a "round butt"... Anyone ever hear of these... I've collected M58s since the early 70s and never saw anything about this...

I have written asking for a picture of the frame with grips off.

Bob

It sounds like Butt talk to me.

I'll bet it's a square butt and Jack was a previous owner.

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"I also cook."

I tend to agree.

Who the "HELL" is Jack Lloyd?

I have also asked about this gun and for photos of the grip frame but not received any reply !
I think "JACK" was the guy with the engraving machine !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

Glad I am not alone...

I think this "clerk" who wrote the add for GM thinks that because the Hogue grips are tapered this is a RB M58...

In the condition that it is in, plus the name engraved on the side, it is a $550 shooter and that is about it.

Bob

If "Jack Lloyd" were anyone famous, wikipedia would have turned up something. As it is, searching his name produces the same result as searching on "prefer_wheelguns"... No page with that title exists.

I'd bet he was the honoree at some ceremony... perhaps his retirement. Or, maybe he just liked to have his name engraved on all his guns.

Dave:

HAROLD LLOYD perhaps?

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

I was thinking Jack Lord and he carried the gun on 5-0.

Maybe a private, local joke? The guru may have bought the gun from his customer Jack Lloyd and is just trying to be funny? Who knows?

When I was a lad and watched Hawaii 5-0, I never saw Jack Lord with anything bigger than a Chief, or maybe a Det. Spl. - except one time I remember him pulling a scoped hunting rifle from the trunk of his car.

There was a TV show on in the late 70s?, that had an actor "Jack Lord" who played a cop.
Maybe thats it.

SuperMan - I've been a Model 58 owner/fan since 1975 and this is the first time I ever heard of this "Jack Lloyd" business.

Looking at the gun, if it really is a round butt, I suspect Mr. Lloyd had the gun modified and then put his name on it with an engraver.

In 1964, if S&W made some number named after a person, they'd have had a rollmark made up for it, not use an engraver.

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BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

I think when the grips are removed the "butt" of this joke is going to be on Gander Mountain...

Bob

I asked him to provide a photo of the grip frame. It has indeed been converted to round butt !

Jerry

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.38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

..."converted" to round butt vs. factory original "Limited edition" is I guess just a matter of semantics to some sellers...

Did they happen to say who Pink Floyd was???..and how many other "Limited Edition(s)" there are out there?

Bob

Max got it right on. If you goggle "Jack Lord" you'll see that he played a cop in Hawaii Five O and Stoney Burke.
I remember that he did carry a S&W large M&P type revolver in Five O.

The gun is still listed on Gunbroker and has a bunch of photos with it now, some showing the grip modifications. Jack Lloyd is stamped in block letters on the left side of the frame below the cylinder, not a factory stamping. More likely the previous owner. Joe

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

A few days back there was a revolver listed on G/B as "air-cooled", That 58 sure looks air cooled, seeing there is no water jacket around the barrel! I bet Jack LLoyd was a pioneer of air cooled revolvers, and that gun was his prototype!!

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173-358429
13.5-2400

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173-358429
13.5-2400

I received an email from GM this morning advising that they had added pics... Not sure if they have figured out yet that this isn't an original S&W Jack Lloyd Special Edition but a one of a kind gunsmith grinder job...

It is an interesting gun but considering what it will take to have "JACK" polished off the frame and a complete reblue job, $500 is all it would be worth.

The other question of course being grips... I wonder how close the contour is to a new original S&W N-Round Butt frame... Other than rubber cover the whole grip frame grips one may be stuck having a custom set of wood grips made...

Bob

For most of the series, Jack Lord (aka Steve McGarrett) carried a Colt Detective Special.

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BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

For most of the series, Jack Lord (aka Steve McGarrett) carried a Colt Detective Special.

That goes to show how bad my memory is. He should have had a model 58 in case he had to shoot thru a "Woodie" or surf board, or take a shark out.

He always carried some sort of snubby. When the going got tough, he would get an M1 carbine cut down and with a pistol grip. I think they use to sell them as Enforcers.

From the serial number, that's one of the first ones produced. I'd say late 1964, early 1965 at the latest. What a shame...

This is really getting some where between unreal and pathetic...

From a Mike Simms at GM...

"These were made up for a S&W Distributor in the 1980,s.
Lew Horton Special Gun"



"Have you heard of the S&W Distributor...Lew Horton.
They had S&W do allot of limited special make-up guns in the 80,s."

So I asked...

"I own several Lew Horton Specials in both S&W revolvers and Colt
1911s...for 15 years I had a shop and used to deal with them...I now live
only 90 miles from their facility... In case you don't know it...Lew
Horton is still having both S&W and Colt make up special guns every year..

Do you have a Roy Jinks letter stating this is a factory special gun??

The backstrap appears to have been machined, as in ground down, after
manufacture and poorly reblued...S&W did not do this.

Production of the Model 58 ended in 1977...the gun you say is a Lew Horton
Special made in the 1980s has a "S" prefix serial number indicating it was
made between 1964 and 1968...

I was wondering who told you all this about this firearm.."

..and received back...


"It sounds like you are not to interested.

Thanks for your info"


..and replied...

"If this is a Lew Horton gun I would be very interested as I already own
three M58s... But with no documentation this is nothing more than a
"Gunsmith Special" with the name of the customer on the side...

So again I ask where did you get this information...? As a big retailer
when you advertise something rare like you are purporting this to be there
should be some documentation to back it up..."

This has all been received in the last 15 minutes...

Bob



_

..."The "Jack LLoyd" limited editions were made with the round butt...."

This would seem to indicate that there are more of these out there!

I would love to know who this Jack La..La..LLoyd character is to deserve "limited editions" of such an awesome revolver dedicated to him!

I should get this 58 to go with my Elmer Fa..Fa..Fudd Model 25!

It looks like a home-made round butt conversion from the 80's when that was the fashionable thing. The lack of polishing and bluing after grinding is a dead give-away. I've seen many of these floating around. Guy puts his name on it, thinking it's "kul" finds out it destroys the resale value. It's just another beater in world full of them.

That things a hack job.. Looks like someone held it to the grinding wheel.. Almost took the "S" off, on the serial number.. This GM character is tryin to sell someone a lemon and needs to be reported to Gunbroker for fraud or something..

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Mick

Now I'll admit to not being an expert on the 58 (although I'm a fan):

1 - Really looks like a square butt to round butt conversion to me
2 - Never heard of Jack Lloyd
3 - No mention of a round butt or Jack Lloyd in either Jinks book or the Standard Catalogue.

I'd love to hear the back story on this one. (remember - you buy the GUN, not the story)

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Kevin Gibson

For this guy to come out and tell a potential customer that this is a Lew Horton Special with no documentation is out and out fraud...or he is just plain stupid and believes what someone told him and thinks that everyone else is also...

But the other question is why make up a story like this...unless GM was sold the gun "with a story" and they bought it and the gun without checking...

Bob

Hopefully, no one else bids... the reserve doesnt get met... and they have to rethink their selling practice on this one.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

I emailed him and asked who Jack Lloyd was, the seller told me had had no idea but it was mentioned in the Blue Book. I've never heard or seen anything in the Blue Book mentioning a Jack Lloyd. As much as I would like a M58, I don't want one that's basically someones hack job.

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Vaya con Dios

Wonder if it could be the Jack Lloyd that sang w/ Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys...

Jerry is correct- it is a POST-factory conversion to round butt in my opin. Look at the cold blue on the grip straps, and how they ground right up to the S. The factory would have moved the number over.


David LaPell said-
If anyone has a new Blue Book, take a look and see if Jack is in there. Maybe he is the author of the S&W section.
I haven't bought one in ten years, so I can't check.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Well there's no mention of Jack Lloyd in the Blue Book under:
a) The Model 58 in the S&W section
b) In the S&W Section headers
c) In the Staff of the Blue Book
d) As even an acknowledgement for a contribution

Since this is Gander Mountain (apparently store #135 from their handle) maybe the best way is to send a message to their Corporate HQ.

A message with ATTN: Corporate Counsel in the subject line. Explain that if GM sells the gun as a "lew horton special" or as a "limited edition from S&W" and cannot positively prove it, such testimonials are fraudulent and actionable. Point out that whomever is responsible for the ad has been questioned and should at least have doubts as to the authenticity of the claims.

Nothing like having Corporate Execs chewing out store managers early in the morning to get actions taken.

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BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

Would you ask this guy to please let you know what editon of the Blue Book this is in and what page...that you are interested in bidding...

Bill..I am at the point of calling GM HQs on this guy...

Bob

I asked what documentation they had or where I could find it ( blue book edition and page) The only response I received was that "The gun is sold" I could have sworn that it had 6 days to go this morning and now the auction has ended without the reserve being met??? Maybe they sold it in their store? Or perhaps they pulled it and say it's sold to avoid more embarassment.

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Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA

Yep...since the reserve price had not been met they had the right to pull the auction before it ended...and they did.

I had also emailed asking about its authenticity, and got back an email this morning from a mike.siems Here's what he had to say.. (I guess he realized it was a fake?) But it dont sound like he was any too happy about it.

"It must be some kind of a modification according to all the self proclaimed
experts.
I pulled it off the auction."
Thanks

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Mick

sceva - confirmed... I saw that earlier today and was going to post about it.

Bob - I'd recommend writing to GM anyhow. The seller in this case made statements he couldn't back up and was evasive when questioned about it.

Mick - at least you got something of an honest response. All I got was "I am sorry, It is sold". Makes me wonder about the veracity of "Gandermountain135" when he's asked a simple question.

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BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

Originally posted by Mickstix:

""It must be some kind of a modification according to all the self proclaimed
experts.
I pulled it off the auction."
Thanks"

"Self-proclaimed experts"? He spouts off with that kind of ****** nonsense and then condems folks who actually know what they are talking about? Sounds like a kid with his first job in a gun store.

"POT CALLING KETTLE! POT CALLING KETTLE! COME IN, KETTLE!"