How many full power rounds can a M29-2 take?
- Thread starter 338x74R
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
catdad
Member
Enough to make your hand sore.
steveno
Member
the question is why shoot the heavy loads in the first place? a 240 grain bullet at 1,200 fps work on anything that should be shot with a 44 mag and a lot more fun
29aholic
Member
IMHO the 29-2's are as good as the new ones. You will find that most 44 shooters (myself included) shoot way more midrange cast loads than hot jacketed ones. I have shot my fair share of hot loads through my 29's but mainly for load development purposes for different types of hunting, although I have killed several deer with my midrange cast load.
I think a gun shot with predominantly cast bullets the bbl will last indefinitely, but on the other hand I have never seen a handgun that has been "shot out". I have seen several rifles shot to smooth bores, but you are talking a lot higher velocities and a lot smaller bores.
My old standby 29-3 has had in the area of 30,000+ rds through it, again mostly cast loads at midrange or slightly above. It is slightly out of time, and doesnt lock up as tight as it used to, but the barrel is as good now as the day it was new. It actually probably shoots better due to being lead-lapped the hard way.
SuperTroll
Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2009
- Messages
- 34
- Reaction score
- 0
Probably more than you would expect, but why?
Would you take a thoroughbred race horse out and run it until it dropped from exhaustion?
That's what nags like Rugers are for.
Would you take a thoroughbred race horse out and run it until it dropped from exhaustion?
That's what nags like Rugers are for.
The case at hand is to buy a used one. I am looking at one with unknown mileage, but it probably has 1000-2000 rounds through it. Apart from that I just happen to like heavy loads, and I like the M29, and I don't like Ruger's handguns
diamonback68
US Veteran
I have never heard of anyone who has ever worn out a barrel. It might develop some end shake after a few thousand rounds, but that is easily remedied. Except for super-hot loads, I would think you will wear out before it does.
FWIW... a bunch. More specific than that depends largely on the condition of the revolver, how heavy is "heavy" and your tolerance for recoil.
I'd recommend that you have a gunsmith examine any used weapon, 'specially if you intend to run heavy loads.
Next aspect is: How many rounds do you want to shoot? 5000/yr? More? How heavy is "Heavy"? 300gr bullets at 1600 fps? If it's in that range, I'd go for something other than a S&W; if you must do that, recommend looking for a 29-3E (the E is the endurance package) or a -4 and later versions if you must have a S&W. The Endurance package was developed to address several problems related to a continual diet of heavy loads. Bear in mind that the M29 was designed around the factory load of a 240gr bullet at ~1500 fps; as people began to load heavier bullets and at higher velocities, the loads began to exceed the design.
A 29-2 can handle a lot of shooting, but was not designed to handle a steady diet of truly heavy loads (above the Keith load of 250gr bullets at more then ~1200 fps.) If you really want to shoot a lot of heavy loads, a modern heavy design like a Magnum Research BFR would be a better choice. Rugers are the usual choice for heavy loads, but since you mentioned you don't care for them, another make might be a better pick.
If you must have a 29-2 (and I've got enough to know) then you gotta have one.
That said, the current condition of the 29-2 you're looking at is really the critical factor. If you search the Forum, you'll see a lot of answers to this question, but the basic one is: Given a 29-2 in sound condition, it'll shoot more than most folks can handle. A tuneup every ~10000 rounds or so to ensure it stays in shooting condition will keep it going a long long time.
In my experience, I've shot ~30K rounds through a Model 57 in about three years of silhoutte competition; not a true comparison to a .44, but in the ballpark. That weapon stayed within factory tolerances. The N frame can take a lot of stress, but there are limits. Beyond that, how much you shoot, how heavy the load is and the relative condition of a 30-40 year-old weapon are the relative factors.
I'd recommend that you have a gunsmith examine any used weapon, 'specially if you intend to run heavy loads.
Next aspect is: How many rounds do you want to shoot? 5000/yr? More? How heavy is "Heavy"? 300gr bullets at 1600 fps? If it's in that range, I'd go for something other than a S&W; if you must do that, recommend looking for a 29-3E (the E is the endurance package) or a -4 and later versions if you must have a S&W. The Endurance package was developed to address several problems related to a continual diet of heavy loads. Bear in mind that the M29 was designed around the factory load of a 240gr bullet at ~1500 fps; as people began to load heavier bullets and at higher velocities, the loads began to exceed the design.
A 29-2 can handle a lot of shooting, but was not designed to handle a steady diet of truly heavy loads (above the Keith load of 250gr bullets at more then ~1200 fps.) If you really want to shoot a lot of heavy loads, a modern heavy design like a Magnum Research BFR would be a better choice. Rugers are the usual choice for heavy loads, but since you mentioned you don't care for them, another make might be a better pick.
If you must have a 29-2 (and I've got enough to know) then you gotta have one.
In my experience, I've shot ~30K rounds through a Model 57 in about three years of silhoutte competition; not a true comparison to a .44, but in the ballpark. That weapon stayed within factory tolerances. The N frame can take a lot of stress, but there are limits. Beyond that, how much you shoot, how heavy the load is and the relative condition of a 30-40 year-old weapon are the relative factors.
Nframe357
Member
I've personally lost 2 model 29's, one a dash 2 the other dash 3 to Winchester white box 240's. Model 29's are not invincible like some seem to think, both of mine developed unlocking and skipping after less than 1000 rds of factory 240's a 1250. Pretty sad in my eyes, I still have a S&W 44 a first year 629 but it gets nothing hotter than warm 44 specials, period. If you plan on shooting a steady diet of magnum level loads look elsewhere like those "nags"
Rugers. My Redhawk has digested thousands of hot 44 loads with zero probs more then I can say for the thoroughbred Smiths. The model 29/629 is one of the most attractive handguns ever made but you need to understand it's limitations before shooting one alot, common sense goes a long way with them.
My experience is that 29s develop enough endshake fairly quickly to need some attention - usually a couple washers fixes the problem, without needing to send the gun back to Springfield. Sooner or later, the barrel will need set back, but in my very humble opinion, this is more a matter of fixing other problems with the gun than of wear to the barrel and forcing cone area. I would hazard the guess that propellants have a lot to do with this. Since most of my experience is with lead bullets and Nr. 2400 powder, I admit my knowledge base is limited.
If I were determined to shoot a lot of high-end 44 Magnums, I would leave my Model 29 at home in the safe.
This is incorrect. The N-frame was adapted to the .44 magnum. It was designed around old turn of the century rounds and much lower pressures. I love 29's, but they aren't as durable as Rugers. They are MUCH NICER guns though. The newer guns, from 29-5's on will handle a steady diet of full power loads. The 29-5's and above have all the endurance package, not just part of it.
Around 3,000 rounds, 5,000 if you never fire more than 50 at a time and let the barrel fully cool.
Back in the 1970s I had a part-time job working for an engineering firm that did product testing. The division that I worked for tested guns for gov., military and police.
I still remember the day we got a 29. The barrel wore out before 3k but they kept shooting it hot. Frame failure was around 10k.
Back in the 1970s I had a part-time job working for an engineering firm that did product testing. The division that I worked for tested guns for gov., military and police.
I still remember the day we got a 29. The barrel wore out before 3k but they kept shooting it hot. Frame failure was around 10k.
I have a 29-2 that my father bought used 25 years ago. It may have been a lemon when it left the factory or it may have been "shot apart." Recently, it was spitting lead and I couldn't get it to group much better than about 6" at 25 yards from a bench. I have no idea of the round count.
I sent it to Karl Sokol late last year. He recut the forcing cone and the crown, then aligned and reamed the yoke. Someone who knows revolvers better than me can say whether these are the typical repairs for a 29 that's been shot apart. Total cost for all of this was just over $200 shipped. I'm not done testing loads, but I've got it shooting into 2.5" at 25 yards pretty regularly.
I think that if you stick to a 250-grain bullet under 1,200 fps, you'll be able to shoot that old gun for quite a while.
Okie John
I sent it to Karl Sokol late last year. He recut the forcing cone and the crown, then aligned and reamed the yoke. Someone who knows revolvers better than me can say whether these are the typical repairs for a 29 that's been shot apart. Total cost for all of this was just over $200 shipped. I'm not done testing loads, but I've got it shooting into 2.5" at 25 yards pretty regularly.
I think that if you stick to a 250-grain bullet under 1,200 fps, you'll be able to shoot that old gun for quite a while.
Okie John
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
12,573 using 240 gr standard. If using lite special loads, use a multiplier of 1.25837. If using full bore b@ll buster loads, use a multiplier of .9997865-lead bullets should use a multiplier against each of the above of .9999321, whereas jacket uses no mutiplier.
The newer ones with the endurance package (so marked at least in the stainless series as -2E and above, ie -3 and up) will stand up a bit more. Sorry but I do not know what the corresponding dash in the carbon series is.
Check it carefully. Back 30 years ago, I did a lot of metallic silhouette shooting. Some shooters used M-29s and shot them with heavy handloads until they were loose. Then they would try to find a sucker to sell it to.
Vanman
Member
I hate lawyers but I think that I love Cajun Lawyers!
flat top
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2008
- Messages
- 491
- Reaction score
- 9
Elmer Keiths load of a 250 grain bullet at 1250 fps has taken every large game animal in the world...nothing else is needed. In my 44 Mags...all of them, my standard load is a 250 Keith (or lighter) pushed by 9.5 to 10 grains of Unique. This makes a great practice/defense load, and is powerful enough to get the job done for those purposes. The Smith 29 action was designed around the "standard" top end load for the era, and, because the design has really not changed all that much since its inception, I would consider that to be the maximum load for the gun. If you must shoot the high end 44 Mag stuff, I would suggest buying a gun that is "made" to take it. If you "must" own a Smith, and intend to shoot loads that are beyond it capabilities...put some money aside for the ocassional refit that will be necessary.
DGNY
Member
Hope you fellas don't jump too hard on this, but my minty 29-2 6", which was supposedly used [I think the seller honest] for just a few boxes of factory has become noticeably looser [carry up and end movement] with about 4 boxes more of Fiocchi [yeah - seems warm] and American Eagle through it. This is a total of less than 500 rounds through the gun.
I was surprised and a bit disappointed. No handloads. YMMV.
My late-model 629 4" shows no such change after more rounds.
Regards,
Dyson
I was surprised and a bit disappointed. No handloads. YMMV.
My late-model 629 4" shows no such change after more rounds.
Regards,
Dyson
rburg
Member
Guns are individuals, just like people. Loads are also pretty variable. How people care for their guns influences how long they last. Above, its already been stated that shooting he hell out of an already hot barrel isn't good.
We go back to the old discussion on how long your gun will last. Do you clean it? If you shoot cast bullets, do you clean the bore regularly and look for leading? If leading starts to appear, so you even know what it looks like. Or what the tight patch looks like?
When people ask how many rounds a M10 will last, I'm always amused. These are often the guys who buy a gun and start to worry after the 2nd or 3rd box of 158s go down range. Relax. Most K frame guns with modest or target loads will go maybe 100,000 rounds. I like to use .38s as examples because the ammo is so cheap. These days, you can get 100 rounds at Wally World for maybe $20 or so. The first 1000 will cost you $200, the first 10,000 will run $2,000. And by the time its rattly, you'll have paid $20,000 in ammo, and nearly as much in range fees and fuel, lunch and supplies. Not bad service from a second glance level gun.
N frame guns don't last that long. Maybe not half as long. But the ammo costs nearly twice as much. If in total, you've blown $600 on a gun and $20,000 on ammo, and it starts to get loose as a goose, sell it. Get your $600 back. It probably only cost you $300 20 years earlier, anyway.
Nice old N frames, or even nice new ones have a lot of life in them. If you want to see how much powder you can put in a case, buy a not so nice gun. Its the other brand, built like a brick, finished like one, too. Inside and out.
Use factory ammo, or handloaded equivalents. Most of us do as related above, we shoot target level loads because they're a lot more fun to fire. My old hands hurt when I fire my 329 with 240 grain full power loads. I don't care how many of them will work. More than I plan on shooting.
Keep cost in mind when you make these comparisons. If you fear wearing one out, sell it after the first 1,000 rounds and start over. Sell it cheap... to me...
We go back to the old discussion on how long your gun will last. Do you clean it? If you shoot cast bullets, do you clean the bore regularly and look for leading? If leading starts to appear, so you even know what it looks like. Or what the tight patch looks like?
When people ask how many rounds a M10 will last, I'm always amused. These are often the guys who buy a gun and start to worry after the 2nd or 3rd box of 158s go down range. Relax. Most K frame guns with modest or target loads will go maybe 100,000 rounds. I like to use .38s as examples because the ammo is so cheap. These days, you can get 100 rounds at Wally World for maybe $20 or so. The first 1000 will cost you $200, the first 10,000 will run $2,000. And by the time its rattly, you'll have paid $20,000 in ammo, and nearly as much in range fees and fuel, lunch and supplies. Not bad service from a second glance level gun.
N frame guns don't last that long. Maybe not half as long. But the ammo costs nearly twice as much. If in total, you've blown $600 on a gun and $20,000 on ammo, and it starts to get loose as a goose, sell it. Get your $600 back. It probably only cost you $300 20 years earlier, anyway.
Nice old N frames, or even nice new ones have a lot of life in them. If you want to see how much powder you can put in a case, buy a not so nice gun. Its the other brand, built like a brick, finished like one, too. Inside and out.
Use factory ammo, or handloaded equivalents. Most of us do as related above, we shoot target level loads because they're a lot more fun to fire. My old hands hurt when I fire my 329 with 240 grain full power loads. I don't care how many of them will work. More than I plan on shooting.
Keep cost in mind when you make these comparisons. If you fear wearing one out, sell it after the first 1,000 rounds and start over. Sell it cheap... to me...
Similar threads
