I few weeks ago, I saw Silence of the Lambs. Can you tell me what model revolver that clarice carried. 3", no rear sights, Round butt, looks liek a large frame.

any help appreciated.

also, what holster

It was a Model 13 Smith and Wesson, three inch barrel, round butt.

I think she used the issued Desantis holster.

__________________
Rule of law, not a man.

If the producers did it correctly, it should have been a Smith & Wesson Model 13, 3 inch barrel, blue, round butt, carried in J.M. Bucheimer holster, both of which were standard issue for the FBI at that time.

Movies being what they are, it could have been the 3 inch Model 10 with round butt and blue finish. It would be extremely difficult to tell them apart on film.

I wondered that myself. Thanks for the post.

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RIP Shipmate

Movies being what they are, it could have been the 3 inch Model 10 with round butt and blue finish. It would be extremely difficult to tell them apart on film.

Just last week at a gun show, I spotted what I thought was one of my grail guns - the 3.0 inch barreled Model 13. When I asked the seller, he had to check - twice - before he told me that it was a Model 10 with the 3.0 inch barrel. The price was too high given the wear ($599.00), and less than a week later, I put money down on a police trade in Model 64 with a 3.0 inch barrel ($355.00 + tax). I guess the Model 13/65 will go further down the grail list as their is a replacement waiting in the wings now.

Best of luck,

Dave

Either of the above answers are correct, although the M-13 was the "issue" item. Movies sometimes make substitutions that are, for practical purposes, undectable.

Unless you have the gun in hand and read the lettering or compare cylinder length or the portion of the barrel throat behind the frame, you cannot tell a M-10 like that from a M-13.

The villain had a Colt Python, if memory serves, and had that gun in the book. He used wadcutter .38 ammo to kill the girls, so as to have minimal disturbance to their bodies. (He wanted to skin them for his "girl suit.")

Look closely as Clarice receives her credentials at the end of the movie. The agent who presents them is John Douglas, then a profiler with the Bureau, and an author of books on profiling and unusual criminal behavior. I guess that he had a "cameo" role.


T-Star

Another Model 13 three inch with leather carry wear......

Attached Images

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I went through the academy in 1991, not long after Jody Foster was there. The academy stuff was filmed at Quantico, and the instructors who appear in the film were real FBI instructors. I had the guy who taught Starling the lesson about checking behind doors for a class.

The instructors I talked to were uniformly impressed with Jody Foster as a student. They said she was very respectful and tried hard to get the firearms stuff right. She pulls off a pretty fair reload after unloading on Buffalo Bill in the dark. Its at about 6:30 in this clip. She does cock the Model 13 - an understandable rookie mistake.

YouTube - Agent Clarice Starling vs. Buffalo Bill

I'm sure she used a Model 13, given the care taken by the film makers to be authentic. The 14" Remington 870 Scott Glen uses looks exactly like the Bureau issue shotgun of the time.

__________________
Rule of law, not a man.

THE BEST source for any information about guns used in the movies is Main Page - imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database
They have a page going into detail on this film--guns, holsters and ammunition.
Definitely worth checking out!

Can anyone advise as to what the FBI issued load was for this pistol? Were agents allowed any discretion in ammo choices? As an example, carrying +P .38 Special ammo rather than a .357 magnum round? Also, are these pistols still in the inventory, and would an agent have the ability to request carrying a Model 13, rather than the currently issued semiauto?

Regards,

Dave

Dave - the issue round in 1991 was the Federal +P+ .38 Special 147 grain Hydra-Shok. Just prior to that the issue load was the famous "FBI round" - the 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint +P, in both the Remington and Winchester varieties.

Agents had to carry the issue .38 ammo. According to the regulations of the time, an Agent could carry Magnum ammo with the specific permission of the ASAC (Assistant Special Agent in Charge). The usual Magnum ammo was Winchester Silvertip (145 grain), though I have come across 158 JHP in gunvaults on occassion.

No revolvers are authorized for carry in today's Bureau. I don't know for sure what happened to all the Model 13s, but I suspect they were destroyed. Once I saw some desk sets that the Quantico gun vault was making up for visiting dignitary give-aways - they had the vertical foregrip from a Thompson submachinegun mounted on a base, with a Model 13 cylinder next to it for a pencil holder. Another time I requested a bunch of Simunitions guns for an exercise, and I got a case of Model 10s with Simuntions cylinders fitted to them. They had all been painted bright orange.

__________________
Rule of law, not a man.

Sipp220.45,

Thank you very much for your very quick, and informative response. When I was a teenager I worked as a bellboy at a Holiday Inn. One of our frequent guests was an FBI agent that was a very nice man. He was always smiling and friendly, and a bit overweight and he looked about as dangerous as day old bread. I found out later that he was highly trained in several different forms of martial arts as well as being a crack shot. In short, he could kill you with a hard look, if he was so inclined. I had a lot of respect for him because he didn't look like the FBI agents on the TV show, and he was always very nice and polite to everyone.

Anyway, thanks again for your response. I do appreciate your information as well as your service.

Regards,

Dave

My 3 inch 13-3. I lucked out.

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More accurately, the site mentioned is "a source," but clearly not the "best source" as I have seem numerous mistakes on the site.

I must say, given the stress a real Agent[or anyone else] would have been under in a real circumstance such as that, the reload looked as real as it gets. Very well done.

However, that clip is a very good example why it is a good idea to carry two SureFire flashlights with you WHERE EVER you go.

Was any nickel guns issued or was they all blued?

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Terry

I'm pretty sure that all issued guns were blued, with nickel not allowed. But private purchased arms could be stainless.

T-Star

What revolvers were authorized for agents in the '91-'95 timeframe?

Any Smith and Wesson steel framed revolver, .38 or .357, with a four inch or less barrel was authorized for use. It had to be privately purchased then inspected by the Division's Principal Firearms Instructor (PFI). No nickel finishes were authorized, though as noted previously, stainless was ok. The most common POWs (Personally Owned Weapons) I saw were 2 1/2 inch Model 19s and 66s, but anything from a 2 inch Model 36 to a 4 inch Model 28 could be carried.

__________________
Rule of law, not a man.

I had a Bureau issued Model 13 3" on my card as late as 1998. It was not listed as my primary. It went back in when my 1076 went back.
Gonzo

Cool, thanks guys.
So no Airweights, huh?

Nope, no airweights. I forgot one - for a brief period, Smith & Wesson 940s were authorized as POWs. I know a guy who bought one, thinking that using the same ammo in his 226 and his backup gun would simplify life. He barely got to carry it before a change came out disapproving them because of the different procedures for reloading (the moon clips). I should have bought it from him on the cheap, but then I wasn't the gun-savvy fella I am today.

I should correct something else from my previous post regarding POW Model 19s and 66s. This was in reference to primary belt guns. By far the most frequently encountered Smith POWs of any kind were the various J frames, the most common probably being the Model 60. In my part of the Bureau these were almost universally called "five shots" and carried in ankle holsters while the Model 13 or Model 10 bounced around in the trunk of the Bu-car. Everybody I knew had one, while only a few guys paid out their hard earned cash for a larger gun when they already had a perfectly good Model 13 or Model 10. By the time I came along, most agents were trying to transition to a semi-auto and POW revolver use plummeted, with the exception of the J frames.

__________________
Rule of law, not a man.

I may have missed it above, but are J-frames authorized and used by regular agents today and if not, what "small" guns are?

There are no more wheelguns authorized. The G26 and G27 have replaced them as the "small gun".
Gonzo

My .02 re bureau issue stuff.

I graduated from Quantico in 1986. I was in the academy when the Miami shootout happened.

Issue revolver was the S&W Model 13 with 3 inch barrel. It was issued with standard round butt magna grips and a Pachmayr grip adapter. Issued holster was the Bucheimer thumb break along with a 6 round 2x2x2 pouch in brown leather. A Safariland speedloader & belt holder was also issued. Duty ammo was Winchester .38 Special 158 grain lead hollowpoint. Winchester .357 magnum 145 grain Silvertip hollowpoints were also issue, but as previously discussed, only supposed to be carried in the gun with ASAC approval. Carry as a reload was authorized and was what I did (+p .38 in the gun, 6 .357 rounds in my belt pouch).

I had 2 authorized personally owned weapons, a Model 66 3" and a Model 60 2". I normally carried the 66 in my own DeSantis speed scabbard and 2x2x2 pouch. Lots of guys carried the J frames in lieu of larger guns. SWAT team members in my office had the former NCIS model 19's with 4" barrels and round butts.

I questioned the use of the speed loader. It's my understanding that the FBI taught and pushed the use of the 2x2x2 bullet pouch.

Great link!! Thanks for the post. rags

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RIP Shipmate

...I was a Junior Achievement advisor, as were a couple of Special Agents from the local FBI office. They both carried nickel-plated Model 19's with 3" barrels and round butts. We used to shoot together at the same local indoor range as the local PD. Both carried W-W 158gr LHP rounds.

They both had issue Model 13's, but each carried the Model 19's for their POW's.

These two were really great guys, and if you met them on the street, the last thing you would have thought was that they were FBI. Both were law school grads, but chose the FBI over private practice.