500 S&W Mag, Lite Primer Strikes ? Any advice ?

Asking for advice on an issue with a S&W 500 Mag, 8-3/8" barrel SN CHH15XX, 2004 manufacture I think, I bought it new in 2004. It's had roughly 250 rounds through it, all but a dozen or so have been hand loads using 440 grain gaschecked LFN pushed by 14.5 grains of Tightgroup and Alcan Rifle Primers. I've used the same bullet, charge, and primers consistently. Three different people have fired it using that load and no one has had any issues up till now.

Wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the reloading forum but ....
Yesterday, I loaded a box of rounds and took it to the range. First cylinder full, it failed to fire every round although the primer was dented on each case. I tried lining each round back up and firing again, maybe 1 out of 4 shots would fire on the second time around, nothing after that. Made no difference whether I was single action or double action, same issue. I tried some more rounds and was able to fire maybe 1 out of each cylinder full.

Since the primers I am using are old (10 years +), I suspected an issue with the primers used so I broke the ammo down, cleaned the primer pockets well, installed different primers from another batch and tried. Same problem, i.e click, click, click.

Took some different once fired brass and installed new CCI Large Rifle primers and tried them. Click, click, click. Same problem, occasionally one would go off, maybe one out of 5.

I loaded some of the ALCAN Large Rifle Primers I had used originally in some rifle cases (I don't have anything else that fires .500 S&W) and every primer fired first time. Same thing with the CCI primers.

I have now decided it's the gun, not my reloads.

Cleaned the gun, sprayed break free into the firing pin area and worked the pin back and forth. used a needle oiler and put some Rem Oil in the firing pin area. It appeared to be free traveling, no hang ups or stiffness and I could see the firing pin protruding from in front of the recoil shield almost to the cylinder when the hammer is lowered and the trigger pulled.

Loaded 10 rounds with both types of primers and tried again. Click, Click, Click. But, on an impulse, I held the trigger all the way back while holding the hammer and released the hammer (Kinda like fanning a single action) and it fired. It almost always fires when I do this. But it wont fire reliably either double or single action normally.

I know these pistols had an issue of primer piercing and broken firing pins early on and that's why they changed from Large Pistol to Large Rifle, I examined the end of the firing pin and it does not appear to be broken, it's nicely rounded and protrudes quite well with the hammer down and the trigger pulled. I even checked the lousy IL lock and operated it back and forth to see if there were any issues with it, still no joy.

I checked the strain screw, it is within half a turn of being locked tight against the frame.

The only thing I didn't check on the ammunition was the primer seating depth but the primers seem to be snugged up in the primer pocket and this is the same brass I've loaded several times before. And, they fired okay in a Ruger bolt action 30/06.

Everything I can see and fit a screwdriver to is tight.

Do I admit defeat and send it back to the Mother Ship ? Any insight would be appreciated

Thanks

Dan R

Tighten the strain screw fully..
If it backs out apon recoil I'd use some blue threadlocker on the strain screw..
Check for fireing pin protrution with the cylinder open & thumb latch held back..
Maybe even check the endshake of the cylinder while in lockup..
Maybe 500 Magnum Nut will chime in with something specific to the X Frame S&Ws..
Alot of Smiths have been coming with short fireing pins.. Not sure if thier the same as the standard J/K/L/N pins??
Good Luck!!

Wow... It sounds like you've covered just about every possibility.

I've had an occasional primer ignition problem like you describe with my 500. I was using CCI LR and they definitely require a harder strike for dependable ignition.

I switched to Federal LR primers and I haven't experienced a single misfire with them.

I know another person who had a primer ignition problem with his 500. He discovered he had mistakenly mixed some early brass that used LP primers with those that used LR. It seemed he was placing LP primers in the LR cases. Those LR cases permit the LP primers to be seated deeper and that affected the firing pin strike.

I'll be interested to see what solutions and cure others may offer.... If you find a cause or solution elsewhere please post it here.

That's a real mystery. As was said, you seem to have covered all the bases. I've had 4 Model 500s and shot them a good bit, all with handloads and have never had a failure to fire, squib, or hangfire. Good luck, suspect that a trip back to S&W is in order. Don

I do not think you should "admit defeat" and send it back until you test it with FACTORY ammo. If it fails on factory ammo, then send it back.

shawn mccarver said:

I do not think you should "admit defeat" and send it back until you test it with FACTORY ammo. If it fails on factory ammo, then send it back.

Click to expand...

I think that is a good idea BUT...it should function with proper handloads and having to shoot only factory ammo will make it a VERY expensive proposition. Don

DonD;
You have missed the point of shawn mccarver's post. You try it with factory loads, if factory loads work well, then you know that your reloads are DEFECTIVE. Then you know where the problem is and can direct your energies in solving that. It doesn't mean that the revolver won't work with reloads, etc. If the factory loads won't work, then, again, you will KNOW it is the revolver and can direct your energies there.

FWIW
Dale53

lcdrdanr said:

I checked the strain screw, it is within half a turn of being locked tight against the frame.

The only thing I didn't check on the ammunition was the primer seating depth but the primers seem to be snugged up in the primer pocket and this is the same brass I've loaded several times before. And, they fired okay in a Ruger bolt action 30/06.


Dan R

Click to expand...

Make sure underneath the ejector is clean and dry. If it's full of crud the firing pin energy is being absorbed by the crud. Tighten than strain screw all the way, as I think this is it.
If it still acts up, tighten up the end shake as this will be the same as the crud under the extractor, as the firing pin energy is moving the cylinder first before smashing the primer...

But I would think it's the screw, tighten it up and you will be fine.

Dale53 said:

DonD;
You have missed the point of shawn mccarver's post. You try it with factory loads, if factory loads work well, then you know that your reloads are DEFECTIVE. Then you know where the problem is and can direct your energies in solving that. It doesn't mean that the revolver won't work with reloads, etc. If the factory loads won't work, then, again, you will KNOW it is the revolver and can direct your energies there.

FWIW
Dale53

Click to expand...

That point was not lost on me. If the OP was a regular reloader and had been successful in the past, one might think that he hasn't suddenly become unable to make a quality reload. So, the factory check is a good idea but perhaps the gun is marginal in some respect that makes it intolerant of reloads. Don

I have had the same problem with handloads and found out it was the loads. The primers were pushed in a little too far.

Another thing to consider is make sure the lock is working properly. Perhaps remove the flag to make sure this is not catching the hammer as it's falling. There have been a case or two that this was the problem (not the X frame but the locks are all the same).

See this movie

SWLockFail.flv video by TFin04 - Photobucket