Updated again - 8-18-2013...Holy Bullet Jump Batman!!

SAFireman

SAFireman

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It happened again----> see new post below :mad:



I have had this Scandium 340 as my EDC for the last five or so years now.
340002.jpg


Each time at the range I fire the 5 in the cylinder and then 5 out of a Tough Strip.

Today at the range -

Bang!

Bang!

Bang!

Crunch!.....hmmmm. I had to fight to get the cylinder open and found the last 2 rounds had jumped crimp and bound up the action....

RemingtonGoldenSaber125gr-bulletjump12-24-2010.jpg


The 'normal' OAL out of the box measured at 1.572" . The jumped rounds measured 1.675" and 1.6955" . I have been doing this rotation method since I decided on using these particular rounds in 2005. They are Remington Golden Saber 125 grain 357 magnum. I checked them for jump when I was deciding on carry ammo and found none....maybe this is an anomaly?

Anyone else had their ammo change over time? I will be calling/emailing Remington after the holidays to see whats up...until then, it is back to the Federal Hydra-Shok rounds that hurts so much to shoot.

This would have been a very bad thing if I needed those last 2 rounds during a serious social encounter :mad:

Update 1-12-2011 - I had called Remington and today got a response - They asked for the lot # on the inside of the box, he told me that the lot was from 2004! My dealer must have had these on his shelf for some time before I got them....they are sending a replacement box of shells and are supplying a return label for me to ship the questionable box back. I guess that when the replacements arrive, I will have to hit the range and see if they hold up. Will provide range report at that time.
 
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Yup.... I've had ammo change over time. My issue happened with deer slugs and a change in powder. Groups got bigger and the POI shifted. What used to be good ammo in my deer gun gave it heartburn. Looks like you should start looking for duty ammo with a heavy crimp and deep cannulered bullet.
 
Interestingly I had this happen with Remmington 130 gr. lead RN in my vintage Colt Cobra in Nov. Out of a box of 50 this was the only time it happened.
 
Maybe it's the picture, but the one in the middle,
doesn't look like it has the greatest crimp in the world.
I have read other posts telling of bullet pull with GS
on this very Forum. I have a 340 PD and it's loaded
with Buffalo Bore 125 grain +P's.
 
What caused it? I've seen a round that is chambered and removed over and over in an auto, the bullet gets pushed back into the case, but in this case was it just from recoil from the other rounds you fired?
 
ARMinSC said:
What caused it? I've seen a round that is chambered and removed over and over in an auto, the bullet gets pushed back into the case, but in this case was it just from recoil from the other rounds you fired?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe that the recoil force in the ultra-light scandium/titanium frame guns does cause bullet pull.

I have been using this same ammo for five years now with no problems....maybe I have a bad lot?
 
500 Magnum Nut said:
Your a tough bird to be shooting 357s out of that revolver!
Click to expand...

C'mon now....I shoot full house 41 mags out of a 3" gun all the time, plus I shoot the same fiery stuff out of my 58's with PC Magnas and a pair of Executioner's Stagg with, get this...., EXTRA BARK! now you know that I'm completely nutz ;)

The 340 is a hand full with 357's, but I only shoot about 10 in a single sitting.....and I am just about certain that I will not even notice in the event that the SHTF.
 
coach22 said:
Maybe it's the picture, but the one in the middle,
doesn't look like it has the greatest crimp in the world.
I have read other posts telling of bullet pull with GS
on this very Forum. I have a 340 PD and it's loaded
with Buffalo Bore 125 grain +P's.
Click to expand...

I have not reloaded a lot, however I tend to agree. It does not appear that the brass is at all crimped into the bullet, certainly at least not like I would normally do myself. Secondly, had it been crimped to suit me you would have at least seen some type of abrasion as the bullet was being forced back out by the recoil. Could be bad photo, but I do not see it.

Should also be a very obvious line as to where it was crimped into the bullet.
 
It's best to use cartridges having bullets with cannelures. I've had the same experience with factory Remington 125gr Golden Saber rounds shot from my M&P 340.
 
Great, I just bought some of this ammo for my 2 1/2" 66 and 327 UDR.

Anyone have problems with this stuff in heavier guns?
 
Dump1567 said:
Great, I just bought some of this ammo for my 2 1/2" 66 and 327 UDR.

Anyone have problems with this stuff in heavier guns?
Click to expand...

I have used them in my 66, 28, 27, and 640 with no problems.....but them again, I had no problems in the 340 until today....go figure...
 
ARMinSC said:
What caused it? I've seen a round that is chambered and removed over and over in an auto, the bullet gets pushed back into the case, but in this case was it just from recoil from the other rounds you fired?
Click to expand...

The gun recoils backward from the shot, pulling the cases with it by the rims. However the bullet will stay in place (i.e. pull out of the case) unless crimp and neck tension are sufficient to keep it in. In this case neither held the bullets well enough.
 
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i have had a 340pd for about 9 years. a guy i used to know had one too, back in the day. he tried pretty much everything in his (even 120s, and lighter). the light bullets pulled very often, even several of the 125s. i just tried to learn from his grief, and all i have ever used is 158s (usually fed h-s), and i have never had one do it. the 158s have a lot more surface area in contact with the case, and the feds are evidently crimped pretty good.

the other thing i have heard of is that the lighter bullets leave "the gap" faster, and a lot of powder/gas escapes before the pressure subsides, contributing to forcing cone erosion.

i will just stick with 158s!
 
SAFireman said:
I have used them in my 66, 28, 27, and 640 with no problems.....but them again, I had no problems in the 340 until today....go figure...
Click to expand...

My guess would be a bad lot. Or maybe compare them to other unfired rounds? I have a hard time believing that anyone would sell a magnum defense round that wasn't crimped, and those look like they have none at all.

Even my plated target SWC have a cannellure...:confused:
 
I figure ammo quality can vary a bit from batch to batch especially since the infamous and disgraceful results of the 2008 elections caused a run on the sales of guns and ammo. I now test the first five from a box by measuring cartridge #5 before and after firing the first four through the cylinder of my little S&W 340Sc revolver. If #5 doesn't grow by more than a few thousands of an inch I figure it is good to go.

The loads that I tried successfully in my limited testing recently are: the Speer (Load # 23921) 135gr Short Barrel Gold Dot .357 mag, the Winchester (Load # X357SHP) .357 mag Silver Tip 145 gr., and the Federal (Load # P357XB1) Barnes Expander 140 gr.

The excellent Wichester Silvertips 145 gr .357 magnums are hot to shoot though the lightweight revolver but unfortunately very hard to find for sale right now, so they may not be available. The Speer GD Short Barrel 135 gr .357 mags are almost pleasant to shoot and are a good SD choice for the lightweight revolver. The Federal 140 gr Barnes Expander .357 seemed very accurate. The Barnes Expander is supposed to be one of the best new bullets available in .357 mag. I understand that Corbon has the Barnes bullets available in 125 gr weight in .357 magnum but I have not tried any of those yet.

I found that the Hornady 140 gr .357 that I tried had noticable bullet pull as did some 158gr loads. Maybe different batches of the same ammo would be fine in the light scandium frame 340 sc revolver

I suggest that you try loads first through your revolver before trusting for carry
 
Eliakim wrote:

"I now test the first five from a box by measuring cartridge #5 before and after firing the first four through the cylinder of my little S&W 340Sc revolver. If #5 doesn't grow by more than a few thousands of an inch I figure it is good to go."

This should be SOP for any ammo that is intended for self defense of any kind (2 or 4 legged).

I had some Remington factory 158gr JHP +P ammo that neck tension was so poor, you could turn the bullets in the case with your fingers -- they would pull badly in the 340PD. This was 7 years ago. FWIW, they chronoed 750 fps from the 1 7/8" 340.

I have loaded/shot 185gr (yes 185 not 158) LFNGCs over a max charge of Lil'Gun (Hodgdon Load for 180gr Win Partition) in the same 340 and have had no bullet movement at all. These chronoed 1,020 fps from the 1 7/8" 340.

One box of Magtech .357 mag 158gr JSP factory ammo had little or no crimp and crimp jump was common -- these were shot in my 3 1/4" 386 PD. In this case, I just reseated the bullets and applied a heavy roll down crimp -- no more problems.

Here's a picture of the Magtech ammo after shooting several rounds first.

Magtech1.jpg


Paul
 
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sub-moa said:
Is this the appropriate place to inject "Six for sure" ?


Just couldn't resist :o...

:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Well, the little S&W 340Sc tends to be "ammo sensitive". But you'd be sensitive too if you weighed less than 12 ounces and belched big flames & lead.
 
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