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01-25-2011, 12:31 AM
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Specific question about a 25-7
I've found one of the rare 25-7 N frames with the 5" barrel for sale and I'm trying to decide whether to pick it up. My main issue is with the durability of the gun. I understand that these aren't going to be as strong as a ruger, and I'm not looking for something to run ridiculously hot loads out of. I do however want a gun that will outlast me with a constant diet of 260gr at around 900-950 fps. Is this realistic or should I pass.
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01-26-2011, 04:49 AM
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I know there are several 25-7 owners here. Surely someone knows about the durability of this gun.
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01-26-2011, 07:02 AM
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I don't know how rare they are as such, perhaps rare to find where the seller isn't asking the moon for it is more the point. I know of 3 shops that have a 25-7. The price tags on them are $895, $950, and $1100. 3 - 6 months later, all three are still in the display cases. I offered $750 for the $895 gun 2 months ago. I was told with a snicker I was crazy to think I'd get one for that, yet there it sits.
As for your desired load, I think it'll handle it just fine, Hodgdon lists a 250gr Cast RNFP loads up to 946 ft/c using HS-6 @ 13,300 CUP and a 260gr 865 260 GR. Speer JHP at ft/s with HS-6 at 14,000 CUP. Both loads are listed under "This data is intended for original Colt revolvers and their replicas. Max pressure, 14,000 CUP." While it's not a BlackHawk the S&W N Frame is considerably more stout than a SAA Colt or clone.
I'd say it'll do fine but, don't take my word for it. John Linebaugh says the 25-5 is happy all the way up to 30,000 - 32,000 PSI.
Gun Notes: Heavyweight Bullets
Quote:
In reality the Model 25-5 is about 80% as strong as the Model 29 in the cylinder area. The frames are the same and are designed for a 40,000 psi load level even though we know this is a bit more than they are happy with. It's too bad S&W built a 40,00 psi cylinder and installed it in a 30,000 psi frame, so to speak. (note: since this writing S&W has worked on the problem of the cylinder unlatching and rolling back under recoil after it gets a bit worn) The 25-5 in .45 Colt is safe to 80% of the 40,000 psi of the .44 Magnum Model 29. This allows a load of 32,000 psi in this frame. I have shot hundreds of the 32,000 psi class loads listed at the beginning of this article in several Model 25-5's. Recoil is heavy due to the S&W "hump" on the grip, but I do not see these loads as being dangerous in this fine gun. I do consider 32,000 to be ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM for this gun and prefer to hold my personal loads to 5% under those listed loads for approximately 25,000 psi. I carry a S&W 4" in .45 Colt daily and shoot a 260 gr. Keith at 900 fps for general duty. When I saddle up and go into the hills I pack the same gun with a 310 gr. NEI Keith over 23 gr. H-110. This gives me about 1080 fps and all the punch I need for anything on our mountain. As with any gun and load data, work up carefully. I assume responsibility only for the ammo I myself assemble.
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You'll find this interesting too, Gun Notes: Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5
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01-26-2011, 10:20 AM
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Years ago I had a Model 25-7 but got rid of it. It will easily handle the load at the ballistics you mention. The problem I had with mine was the chambers were cut on the generous side, which was hard on the brass. Even so, you should be good for thousands of rounds before the gun shoots loose. The load you are describing is what I'd call a good and proper service type load for a Model 25.
Dave Sinko
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01-26-2011, 04:12 PM
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I have a 25-7. The loads you are looking at should be fine. I like a 200 gr lswc over 6.0 Red dot for range shooting.
I bought mine because the chamber mouths were supposed to be in spec. Mine are and the gun is very accurate.
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01-26-2011, 04:28 PM
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I use 8grs of unique over a 250gr lead rnfp. Nice moderate load, could shoot it all day and the gun will last forever with that load. Very accurate in my 25-5.
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01-26-2011, 05:03 PM
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The load you are asking about is barely idling in the 25-5 and -7. They are far stronger than many realize, but old wives tales are hard to kill off.
Ziptar pointed you to the right info.
I have fired plenty of Linebaughs loads through mine with no affect that can be measured or felt resulting from doing so. I don't go all the way to 32,000 psi, because that is starting to push it where long term durablity is in question. I happily use loads that run from 23,000-25,000 though, and I am not worried about wearing my guns out. Both this 25-7 and this 25-5 have fired these type loads, and I have to say, that as a rule the warmer loads shoot even better than the milder ones do, but you will have more recoil to contend with if it bothers you. The loads you mentioned (OP) are cake walk in one of these recoil wise.
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01-26-2011, 05:16 PM
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I have three of the 5" 25-7s and an equivalent 25-9. As Linebaugh points out in the "Gun Notes" article these guns are stronger than people realize !
The throats on all of mine are 0.452" (pin gauge) and I have measured a dozen other 25-7s & 25-9s at the same diameter or slightly less ! Mine will outlast the owner !
260gr @ 950fps and the gun will last a few generations !
Jerry
25-7
25-9
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01-28-2011, 07:22 PM
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So, from what I'm hearing, if I stick with the loads I listed, and other factory standard pressure ammo mixed in, I shouldn't have to worry about the gun shooting loose in my lifetime.
That leads me to my second question. Is there any sort of generic round count service life that these revolvers have? I don't beat on my firearms by any means, but I do shoot them and as I said before, I'd rather not wear out a collectible, even with standard pressure stuff when I could do the same with something thats currently made and easily replaceable.
I appreciate all the answers as while I'm not new to firearms by any means, it should be painfully obvious that this is my first earnest trek into both revolvers and handloading.
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01-28-2011, 07:43 PM
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It would be almost impossible to wear one out with factory equivalent loads like those made for the last 135 or so years.
That is, providing you don't cycle your cylinder fast when cocking SA or DA. That in itself will wear a gun loose much quicker than any sane load will. It wears the cylinder stop, stop window, and the stop notches much faster than a slower deliberate cycling of the action does, yet I see guys constantly thumbing back the hammer rather quickly.
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01-28-2011, 08:23 PM
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I have two other nice S&W .45 Colts, both with the dreaded lock. A 25 Classic and a 25-13 Mountain Gun. That gives me 4", 5" and 6.5". The Classic is nickel so there is some bling factor as well. All three are very accurate.
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01-28-2011, 08:40 PM
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While the matte finish isn't everyone's favorite, the unearthly accuracy of that revolver marks it as an exceptional "must have".
It's what I take to the range when I need a morale boost about my marksmanship.
9g Unique under a 250g cast for me, either a 255g SWC or a 250g RNFP.
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01-28-2011, 09:01 PM
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Here's my 25-7
[IMG] [/IMG]
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01-28-2011, 09:11 PM
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Bought my 25-7 back in 89 when they came out. It has been fed a constant diet of 255 gr cast bullets pushed by 8.5 grs. of Unique. I can't remember a jacketed bullet ever being fired in this gun. It is no worse for wear and will outlast me.
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01-28-2011, 09:33 PM
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OP,
Buy it...Shoot it. Mine has digested a thousand rds so far, 250-280 gr lead SWC's at 950 fps or a bit more. Zero issues...not a hint of end shake, still locks up tight, etc. And...Freedom Arms accurate!
BUY IT!
FN in MT
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01-28-2011, 11:00 PM
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I have only recently ventured into the world of the .45 Colt. My 25-7 seems to shoot high, and the rear sight was screwed down so tight, I was not sure I could get it loose. I have shot it only about 40 rounds of factory ammo, but have loaded 200 rounds of 8 gr Unique and 250 grain lead bullets since Christmas. Looking forward to seeing what they will do when spring arrives. The throats are good at .452 and it seems to be very accurate.
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01-29-2011, 04:03 AM
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What these owners said.
I had a 25-7. It took several hundred rounds of 300gr WFN-GC bullets @ 1210 fps to induce .001" of extra endshake. I talked to S&W about this at the time; their advice was to have a good time, shoot the sn*t out of it and then send it in for a new heat-treated yoke. No big whoop.
At the levels you're talking, the revolver won't even know it's been shot- redundantly, what they all said.
I really like to call attention to the cycling advice given above, more so because of the increased mass of the non-fluted cylinder.
Have a great time with it!
1x2
Jerry, I never get tired of looking at those photos - but promise you'll get the Goodyears off that first gem.
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01-30-2011, 08:50 PM
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Great info guys. One last question and I'll stop pestering the masses. I've been reading up a bunch on what Linebaugh has to say about these guns and the .45lc in general. One of his sticking points is that many of the problems of hot loads in modern colt revolvers is due to the fact that the chambers are far to large. Has anyone here mic'd the chambers on their 25-7.
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01-30-2011, 09:05 PM
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Absent Comrade
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The large cyl throats have been a problem with the earlier M25-5 .45 Colts.
Frankly other than old SAA's with rusted chambers....I have never heard of any issues with large/over spec chambers on a Smith.
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01-31-2011, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Has anyone here mic'd the chambers on their 25-7.
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Quote:
The large cyl throats have been a problem with the earlier M25-5 .45 Colts.
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What he said. Mine were good.
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01-31-2011, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EsquireMagnum
One of his sticking points is that many of the problems of hot loads in modern colt revolvers is due to the fact that the chambers are far to large. Has anyone here mic'd the chambers on their 25-7.
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See post #8 ! The 25-7s and 25-9s I have measured are all 0.452". The problems are in many of the 25-5s !
Jerry
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01-31-2011, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLL
See post #8 ! The 25-7s and 25-9s I have measured are all 0.452". The problems are in many of the 25-5s !
Jerry
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It is usually with the pinned guns. The 25-5 non pinned guns are ok. One of the few smiths where non pinned gun is more desirable than a pinned gun.
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12-15-2016, 04:15 AM
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Here is mine:
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Tags
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44 magnum, colt, endshake, fluted, lock, marksmanship, model 25, model 29, mountain gun, ruger, saa |
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