I have an M&P 340 j frame revolver. I can handle recoil and want the deepest penetrating rounds possible. This is my back up and I want it to penetrate. Do heavy magnums jump the crimp or is that only lighter rounds?

I like these heavy 200 grain hard casts from double tap. Will these heavy loads blow my gun or wear it out quick?

ERhttp://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=337

One of the most senseless ideas I've seen in a long time.

Here's a tip. "Use the right tool for the job."

Want to shoot 200gr hard cast heavy loads? A 13 oz scandium frame snubbie ain't the right tool, but I suspect you already knew that.

Will it blow up? No. Wear it out? Of course. Do the answers to these questions really matter? No, because the fundamental notion is an incredibly bad one.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

No it will not blow the gun up BUT I want some good video of you shooting it. I need a good chuckle.

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T. Johnson

I want a heavy penetrating load. I figured for CQB this would hit harder than lesser loads. They also make a 180 grain hard cast. Whats the heaviest you guys would go? I have a .500 S&W so I figured this couldnt be much worse and the videos dont seem bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqqZF8cZaEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxln8...eature=related

This is my backup gun and will be used on animal predators as well as others. I have alot of pittbulls in my area that get loose. I have my backup set up for my weakhand so I want to be able to get a dog off my other arm. The last attacking pittbul they shot took 3 rounds of 9mm and ran away to die pretty far away.

If were me and you wanted to use your M&P340 for your intended purpose, I'd keep it loaded with Double Tap's 158gr Nosler JHP load. Nosler bullets are famous for their deep penetration, they should expand some increasing killing power, and followup shots, if needed, will be a lot quicker with these vs any .357 Magnum heavy/rifle load.

DoubleTap Ammunition

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

"This is my backup gun and will be used on animal predators as well as others. I have alot of pittbulls in my area that get loose."

This statement indicates a threat that is not possible or potential, but definite. If "animal predators and others" were in my path on a regular basis and posing grievous bodily harm, I would be focused on my primary carry firearm and not my BUG to defend against them.

Or I would leave the area immediately.

I'm not sure if your cylinder would even be long enough overall for the 200 grain bullet, you might want to measure. Another thought is why? You can use a 170 grain cast bullet and it will do everything you want it to do. The Lyman #358429 will work just fine for that. As far as crimping the bullet, yes, you need to crimp it. One thing though, this gun is going to kick hard with a heavy .357 load. I don't know how you are with recoil, some people don't mind it, but it will keep you from getting a quick second shot. I know a 170 grain bullet and 12.5 grains of 2400 is a mild load and in my Outdoorsman isn't too bad, but it has a pretty good blast to it. In that j-frame its going to be downright interesting. To me it seems like you are trying to get gun that is too small for the job too much to do. Another bullet to think of is the cast #358156 162 grain SWC which has been used to kill lots of big game animals in .357's over the years. This would be alot better. Load that at just over +P levels and it should have no problem going into a big dog's skull.
How big of other predators are you talking? Are we talking coyote size or bear size? If we are talking bear, a .357 N frame is where my next step would be simply because my loads would be hotter in a gun I could control more, but I would have my .41 Magnum on my hip most of the time.
Remember one thing though. Dogs are quick, real quick. If you anticipate getting charged by a pitbull, you are going to have to hit a moving target and that skull is one of the smaller parts. A big dog moving at 30 mph is not an easy target to hit. I know I had a heck of a time hitting a running coyote at 25 yards once with a shotgun with slugs (came in on me deer hunting) and only the third and fourth shot got him. So what I will tell you is you are going to want to think more of a body shot, getting off a second or third shot if necessary, and with a gun that recoil doesn't prevent you from doing so.
To sum it up, the 200 grain bullet is more of a hassle, and if you load the powder up to the gills in your gun, you will be spending more time trying to realign your sights than trying to get Fido off your leg.

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Vaya con Dios

I apologize for the rude people.

A 158gr load at anything over 800fps will usually completely penetrate the average person unless it's stopped by a bone.

I suggest getting a couple boxes of this....

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Heavy .38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. --G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box

.

The gun in the videos looks like an all-steel 686, or maybe a K-frame. I bet those rounds from a Scandium J-frame would be considerably worse than your .500, but I guess you'll have to be the one to test it; I certainly won't. Especially not in the weak-hand mode you're proposing.

No. They will not blow up your gun. I will say, a 200gr bullet going 1000fps out of a one pound gun is not going to be pleasant and follow up shots are going to be really difficult. I think you would be better off with a lighter solid around 800fps. That would go through a dog and follow up shots much quicker.

If it were me, I would consider the .357 Magnum CorBon DPX.

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Centennial Every Day

You need to rethink your strategy. For protection from light skinnned predators like the pit-bulls, you need a fast lightweight HP that will transmit it's energy and do massive damage to tissue and bone. Penetration on animals like this is a moot point. Even on the largest pit-bull 10 inches of penetration means a pass thru.....something easily done on a dog(or human) with any commercially available 125 gr .357mag jacketed HP. Shooting a heavy hardcast bullet meant for grizzly bears will pass thru without doing much damage. I suspect your story of the pit-bull that was shot three times was shot with a FMJ that did exactly nuttin' but leave a clean 9mm hole. Shooting a heavy recoiling round one handed with your weak hand is not going to make for accurate follow-up shots either. Being able to hit the animal with the proper bullet makes more sense than missing it with a round intended for dangerous game. I'd be surprised if you could keep that gun in your hand shooting those loads, one handed, weak hand, while fighting off an attack with the other.

I've loaded a lot of 180 grain CastPerformance SWCs for 357 over a fairly hefty charge (but "safe" according to the manuals that I've checked) of H110/W296. Mostly I've used them in a Marlin 1894 and my N-frame 357s, but decided to fire a few out of my 340PD just to see what it would be like. Not pleasant by any means, but not any worse than other full magnum loads that I've fired through the same gun. They all hurt! I suspect that they are less hard on the gun than light bullets at high velocities.

For what it's worth, my experience with very long bullets in 2" Smith & Wesson .38 SPLs.

In the mid-'70s, I became interested in heavy for caliber .38s after discovering that my grandfather carried a 4" Regulation Police in three campaigns in the Pacific in WW2. It was loaded with British service ammunition and in fact he had to use it once, in 1945. He thought it met his needs very well.

I tried several different bullets, ranging from 168 grs to 200 grs. Velocities ran from around 600 fps to perhaps 775-800 fps, in aa 4" bbl (No way to measure back then. It was all guess work.) Velocities in 2" bbls were of course less, but I can't say how much.

I discovered a couple of things.

While they wern't bad in a 4" M&P or an Official Police, recoil in small frame revolvers was an issue. In a 2" M36 or Detective Special it was abusive with any load that went much above 700 fps. Keep in mind I was 26-27 years old at the time and would have eaten worms and died before I admitted that anything kicked too much for me to handle.

The other thing I discovered was that long for caliber bullets in a short bbl Smith & Wesson .38 Spl might or might not stabalize enough to hit the target nose on. The rate of twist in the Smiths I was using was (I think) 1:18 3/8s. In the short tube, it would not always provide enough spin, depending on the velocity. This was not an issue with Colts, which had a faster rate, 1:14. The longer the bullet, the worse the problem. Anything over 170 grs was suspect, often showing signs of yaw on impact. The 200 gr bullets would often print a perfect bullet profile on the paper.

Any bullet that strikes sideways is not going to penetrate at all.

I have noticed a similar situation with the long copper bullets in .38 Spl. They seem to need a certain minimum velocity to stabalize, at least in short bbl Smiths. I have not noticed the problem in 3" or longer tubes.

All this seems to be some what gun specific, so if you do go to a heavier bullet, make sure that the holes in the target, made by your gun, are perfectly round.

Charles

Even monster loads in a an old style Ruger Vaqureo will loosen it some over time. You load whatever you want and give it a try and if it works for you keep doing it. But if you pratice with a hot load you should expect to shorten the life of any firearm. Don't pay any attention to all the too much recoil, or stupid idea talk. Everybody handles recoil differently. I personally have NEVER noticed recoil when I was taking the life of an animal. I bet if I ever needed it for protection from a human animal I wouldn't notice either.

For all my carry options I shoot cheap low power stuff to practice and end the session with something nice and hot and makes sure the sites are good. You need to shoot these lightweight guns a lot to learn to control them for mutiple shots, stay accurate with a double action pull etc., but it does not have to be with full power loads.

Then I load it with the hot stuff. These little light guns are not meant to be pulled out and plinked with. I load +P in my LCP when I carry it but I never practice with it. It has had one mag fired through it just to be sure i could control it. Same with my new 340. I will load it hot and empty the cylinder to see what I have, then adjust as required. Just because I may not be able to hit a 4 inch curclke at 12 yards in a big hurry dosn't mean you cant with you 200 grain loads.

Have fun.

Groo here
A dog that has not run off after the pain or the noise of a shot
is going to be a lot harder to stop than some might think..
Range will be short [point contact] so hitting will not be a problem,
like in a knife fight..
I would think that a good hard bullet,jacket.plated,or cast 158gr would
go deep enough at 1000 or so without beating you up much.
The biggest thing with HP's is that they slow down quickly
when they expand and are less than a threat to others.
Unlike people, animals do not decide to give up, so a hit to the brain
or spine is the only real " stop" everything else is just a bleed out.
Look at where you live [how many people ,how close]
The threat [how big, how heavy the skull, how far away-how much time you have]
And how much kick [pain] you can take,,, and chose..
Like Bear-- body shots are too slow to take effect
range will be short [ as you are being chewed on]
reloads are not important [ will be over by the time your empty]
you will not feel the gun go off and you will shoot fast as you can,
Kick is not a factor in speed when shooting inches instead of yards.
Ok Any 158 gr hp sp or cast magnum will work,
and you will get bit..

I find that a ASP baton in the right length works well on pit bulls. No noise-firing a weapon in city limits-stray bullets etc. It has worked for me a few times.

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T. Johnson

Why not just load your M&P 340 with the Speer SB 135gr .357MAG load? Its sole purpose of creation was to be used in short barreled revolvers such as the M&P 340.

I use the .357 magnum 158 grain gold dots in my M&P 340. This is my backup gun and the recoil is harsh but considering I have 5 rounds I dont mind it. If I am going to this it means I am having a bad day and either lost or ran out of ammo for my primary Glock 21 .45acp.

Now, for the last shot in my 5 shot backup gun or possibly my 5 shot speed loader I want the biggest baddest round there is. I want to use the 200 grain from double tap if it wont blow up the gun. If I make it to the 5th shot or have to reload my backup gun something is really bad. I want to know I am throwing the heaviest round that is possible.

I would prefer a kukri to an asp baton.

why a 200 grain? "Because they don't make a 210 grain." I don't mind recoil..I have a s&w 360 and have shot 158gr jsp and 158gr hp's...they feel pretty snappy but whatever...Everybody here on the forum should know that a 357mag is gonna kick when fired from a 12 ounce rocket..

Since this is my backup gun and its going to be the last round in the gun I want it to penetrate as deep as possible. If I am on the 5th round of a back up gun then hollow points have no solved it. This will also allow me to know the gun is empty. Will the 180 or 200 grain double tap hard cast penetrate deeper out of the J frame?

the way to find out for sure is to pick up a box or two and shoot 'em yourself....YOU are the one who needs to be comforted by the firearm YOU carry, not anyone else here....
I doubt anyone here knows what the factory says about those loads, call Smith and Wesson and ask 'em....and post what you find out here, both about the loads and what Smith says

I contacted double tap and they said it will be safe. I am going to load 158 grain speer gold dots as my first 4 and a 200 grain hard cast as my last. Figure it will do alot of penetration if the first 4 hollow points failed. Worst case situation will is possibly drop a black bear?

One post recommended Buffalo Bore .38 +P. Good stuff but test it first. In my 638 the empty shell casings need to be pulled out by hand one at a time. The casings seem to expand and will not dump from the cylinder with a sharp strike of the ejection rod.