Admin Edit-
DO NOT post in this thread unless you are relating a lock failure that you have FIRST-HAND knowledge of.
I don't care if you love the lock.
I don't care if you hate the lock.
No other comments.
No rants.
No wishes.
No whining or moaning.
Just the facts about lock failures.

Period.
Lee Jarrett
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If you've first hand knowedge of an IL failure, please vote and make a post as to the exact nature of the failure.

If you have not had a failure, please vote accordingly. No need for a post.

This is not the thread to complain about the ugliness of the lock, we all know it's ugly. There are plenty of other threads about the subject to complain about that.

We also don't want to hear about the cost of the IL. I resent that myself. But I'll complain about that in another thread.

This is also not the place to tell whether you like 'em or not.

Let's try to keep this thread as scientific as we can to build a useful database.

Thanks, Tyrod

P.S. Please if you've responded to this poll that you've had a malfunction include the approximate date of manufacture of your revolver, if you know it. If not, then the first 3 letters of the serial number and we can figure out the date of manufacture. Trying to disern a pattern if there is one.

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NRA Benefactor

I wonder how long this boat will float.

If it stays on track as a venue for first-hand experience, I like it.

Keep it factual and keep it calm and keep it focused, and we can all benefit from it.
If the same sad song gets sung in three part harmony, with doo-wah boys in the background, it goes away.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

637-2 and 629-6 (CJUXXXX) ILS partial activation during recoil. The 629 may have just been fouled where the ILS are located since it seemed to work once the side plate was pulled for a detail cleaning. But both instances needed the key to wiggle the hammer free on both guns. Neither one was heavy recoiling ammo. My 640-2 never had an issue but the ILS was removed anyways. Those are my only ILS guns. So I'm two out of three against.

The 637-2 had a cracked frame and I don't have the paper that had my serial number anymore. Of special interest is that the cracked frame had the ILS parts removed before I sent it back. I was curious what they would do. They put the part back that accepts the key but didn't put the flag part in it. I haven't pulled the side plate to see what else may be inside. As soon as I stop nickel and dime'ing myself to death, I will be putting in an order with Bullseye Smith for one of his Plugs.

As per post #9:

"Yes, T have had failures with my IL, and the gun is unmodified and has had no smithing."

X 2

Previous to my two issues, neither gun had anything done to it. Neither side plate had ever been removed by me. Neither one had any visible presence of polishing internals or anything else. Up until then the only thing I had done was swap out grips a couple of times. I have gone full circle with the 637 right back to the UM grips. The 629 now wears Ahrends round to square retro combats in moradillo.

I have fired my 64-7 quite a bit, no issues.

My 66-7 had the lock deactivated by the Australian police who used them, so there won't be any issues there.

I put the "plug" in my 10-14, so again, any problems are avoided.

I just bought another security trade-in 10-14 and plan to leave the lock alone, and I also plan to get a 64-8 and won't mess with that lock either.

I'm sure to be flamed for this, but my Model 21-4 (#DCL2102 - 6/8/08)
has had two incidental lock activations. The mechanism does not fully engage, just enough to stop the action. Didn't even need the key to release it. Just wiggled and bumped the hammer and trigger to clear the stoppage.
I suspect that there may be a defect in the lock mechanism. This revo had several problems new and went back to S&W for a new barrel. Probably made on a Friday during MA hunting season!
As its only a range toy, I have not yet bothered to remove the lock. Removing the lock and plugging that "hole" just leaves another gap alongside the hammer where the "flag" resides.
It is a flawed design and I will never purchase another revolver with it as presently implemented.
Several other handgun manufacturers have managed to engineer locks without the appearance and performance issues that S&W created.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Okay. You're new here. I've written this up probably five dozen times here and elsewhere around the 'net, but I'm good for another try.

I oafishly knocked my unloaded early Model 60-15 off a counter onto a hardwood floor. (My force-on-force training has revealed that this is about the level of jarring that a "combat" gun might well experience during a physical encounter from which one might need to defend oneself.) The locking flag partially raised and sort of sat somewhat crosswise in its slot, locking the gun up. In order to put the gun back into action, I had to go to my safe, dig out the box, find the keys, fully actuate the lock (it wouldn't simply go "off") and then turn it back "off").

Given the my force-on-force experience and the fact that this was supposed to be a defensive gun, I thought it was unacceptable for such use. Nowadays I'm much more comfortable inside the workings of a S&W revolver, and - if it had happened to me now - I'd simply remove the lock and plug it. At the time, no Plug was available and I was inexperienced and worried I'd mess up the innards, so I took it back to the store where I'd bought it new and sold it at a loss. What a shame - I really liked that gun.

642-2
It had a hitch in the trigger pull that came and went at random times.
The trigger would hang up at the end of the trigger stroke. When I released the trigger, the next rounds would fire normally.
It would do this 2-3 times in a box.
I removed the IL and the problem went away.
I have a Mod. 21-4 with the IL and have never had any problems.

All most forgot. Date on test fire case is 1-18-10.

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Field Researcher. IGC

I experienced IL related ftf while shooting double taps with an unmodified Model 60-14. The trigger and hammer both locked up tight, to get it to release I had to manipulate the hammer with my thumb to remove pressure on the flag and use the key to disengage the lock. I purchased the gun for CCW and needed it to be 100% reliable so the IL was disabled. I removed the flag, ground off the nub and reinstalled the flag to avoid having an unsightly gap between the hammer and left side of the frame. I am pleased to report that the gun has performed flawlessly for thousands of rounds after disabling the lock...

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"Shall not be infringed"

Keep up the good work folks

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NRA Benefactor

I've had no problem with 5 out of 6 with the lock.
For the first 200 or so rounds my Model 357 Night Guard had issues when shooting it double action. The "flag" would go rearward under recoil and lock up the action with both the hammer and trigger locked to the rear.
Cocking the hammer fully and pushing the flag down would clear it.
I disassembled and re-assembled the lock, lubed with CLP, locked and unlocked a half dozen times. After a few malfunctions in the next 100 rounds I haven't had another malfunction in the last 400 rounds.

Malfunction with:
Model 357 Night Guard .41 Mag. s.n. CNV

No Malfuntions:
M&P 340 .357 Mag. s.n. DAW
657-5 PC .41 Mag. s.n. CFC
57-5 Mtn Gun .41 Mag. s.n. CMN
57-6 .41 Mag. s.n. CMA
58-1 .41 Mag. s.n. CNM

KO

Good solid numbers folks, keep up the good work.

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NRA Benefactor

Read the edit to Post #1.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I "had" a m637 about five years ago. When dry firing the lock would stop the hammer from full cycle. Not all the time, It seemed It happened more when pointing the gun up. I sent it back, they fixed it & I sold it.

There must be more of you willing to vote!

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NRA Benefactor

C'mon folks, lets get to 200 votes.

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NRA Benefactor

I have a 21-4 (Thunder Ranch 44 Special) that I bought in 2005, serial sequence is TRS09xx. The gun had numerous failures to fire. You could "unlock" the gun, fire a round or two and it would lock up. I had this happen several times at the range. I then removed the entire lock assembly and, of course, have had no more problems with the gun.

I would not buy another S&W with a lock, expecially one that I intended to use for defense.

I can't see this thread running much past the weekend. So, if you want to vote, now's the time.

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NRA Benefactor

On my 625-8 it was the spring. sent it back to S&W and fixed it. took the .45 acp revolver out to indoor range and put an extra 300 rounds of moon clipped acp and auto-rim thru it and no hangups with flag. flag never came up. S&W said that broken spring wasn't looked at at safety lock factory.

I have asked handejector to end the Poll today. This could very well be your last chance to get in your vote.

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NRA Benefactor

Ok, I know I'm gonna regret this, let's throw this open to discussion.

Please please please, no general comments about locks. Look at the data and make rational comments about the data only.

I'll start.

Some folks voted that they had failures with the lock but didn't comment about their failures. I'm inclinded to throw those votes away. However, in the interest of fairness let's just throw half them away. I tend to believe those that did add comments. So, all things considered I would still put the failure rate at 5+%. If I were a LEO and the primary weapon I had to use had a 5% failure rate, I'd become an accountant. As a LEO backup gun, slightly more tolerance can be made, but not much.

The same could be said for home defense. Most folks use revolvers because they tend to be somewhat idiot proof. If your home defense gun has a 5% chance of failure, then maybe you ought to rethink your home defense gun.

For plinking or range work, who cares. Blast away!

I'd be rethinking my choices for competition work as well, if for no other reason than the embarrassment when your lock jams.

Finally, I also belong to the Taurus & Ruger forums as well and while the subject of locks comes up occasionally. The topic doesn't come up near as frequently as it does around here.

P.S. The reported fauilure rate is much much higher than I expected. On the interweb, bad ideas can go viral overnight. I was expecting something like 1 or 2 or 3 failures. Heck, a drawer knob can have failures that low. I think this is a real problem.

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NRA Benefactor

I cannot agree. The science is beyond faulty- there simply is none.
220 voted.
15 failures taking all as valid.
That means about one out of every 14 guns failed.
That's a ludicrous number.

What it boils down to is people who have not had a failure did not vote.
People tend to talk about problems more than good things, so the ratio here is VERY skewed and simply cannot be called accurate.
Think about it-
If you get cut off on the freeway and nearly killed, you go to work and rant. Have you ever gone into work and talked about the nice drivers you saw this morning?
Same with restaurants, new cars, gun shops, etc. People talk more about the bad experiences than the good ones.
I suspect everyone who saw the poll voted if they had had a failure, but I suspect that a very low % who had not had a failure voted.
It is 9:40 on Christmas Eve, and 217 people are viewing this particular forum, and the poll was open 10 days or more and got 220 votes????
No way you can extrapolate this into an accurate percentage.

I let the poll run for the explanations of valid failure occurences.
However, discussion of the figures has no real validity because there is no way it is an accurate representation of the percentage failure rate.
So, we'll lock it down at this point.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett