Has anyone really had a problem w the internal lock on a j frame? I just started to carry a 360pd as my everyday gun. I choose this after experiencing reliability issues with about every 380 I bought. And I spent everywhere from $200 Keltec's to $800+ pistols. So I thought a J frame would be the most reliable BUG. So why are people now telling me that the internal lock could malfunction and lock the gun? Is this a rumor? Or does it really happen? I didn't plan on modifying this gun but should I have the lock removed? This whole issue kind of scares me. I need a gun I can trust with my life. Thanks for the info. I'm sure this issue has come up a million times so I'm sorry about the repost
Internal lock failure
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Rockhanger
Member
Mine has never malfunctioned nor do I believe it is pron to. A lot of people just like to complain about anything different. IMHO a j-frame with an internal lock is a lot less likely malfunction than any auto.
I had the same gun and shot hundreds of very hot +P and .357 through it and it never failed me. I only sold it to fund another purchase. Currently I have a 5" model 63 (.22) w/the lock and have put thousands of rounds through it w/no failures.
The only advise I can offer is to shoot your gun w/lots of hot stuff and see what happens. I don't like the lock but have never had a problem w/those I've owned. What I suspect is that S&W did have a problem w/some early models they quietly fixed. Please do not pay attention to the Internet stuff. Some may have blamed the lock when in reality the problem was elseware.
The only advise I can offer is to shoot your gun w/lots of hot stuff and see what happens. I don't like the lock but have never had a problem w/those I've owned. What I suspect is that S&W did have a problem w/some early models they quietly fixed. Please do not pay attention to the Internet stuff. Some may have blamed the lock when in reality the problem was elseware.
BlueOvalBandit
Well-known member
2000 run through my 625-8 in the last month no IL failure. Although depending on how dirty the cylinder stop and notches are the stop may get stuck and not release from the notch. A slight wiggle releases it, and a little lube makes it go away totally.
I wonder if you just barely disengage the IL could it then get kicked on from recoil?
I wonder if you just barely disengage the IL could it then get kicked on from recoil?
Well I read that link and now I feel even worse about my $1000 investment. I hate to sound paranoid. And I'm sure the likelihood of a malfunction of the lock would be about as likely as a bad round. But I can't believe that S&W would ever in a million years keep this on a firearm meant to protect lives. I'm sure some lawsuit pressured them into adding the lock. But imagine if this malfunction was to blame for a loss of life.
I don't plan on selling this gun so I may consider having the lock removed by a gunsmith. I heard it is easy and takes 20 min. But I seriously hate to alter my brand new revolver. Has anyone had this done?
I don't plan on selling this gun so I may consider having the lock removed by a gunsmith. I heard it is easy and takes 20 min. But I seriously hate to alter my brand new revolver. Has anyone had this done?
Easy to take care of, if you're so inclined...
http://smith-wessonforum.com/accessories-misc-sale-trade/143299-fs-plug.html
Just put the parts you take out in a bag and save them, re-install as needed. And, of course, make sure you have the skills and tools to disassemble and reassemble without damaging the gun. Not hard, just takes a little care and some properly sized screwdrivers. Took me about 15 minutes, and that was taking my time.
You have a fine carry piece, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
And, welcome to the forum!
http://smith-wessonforum.com/accessories-misc-sale-trade/143299-fs-plug.html
Just put the parts you take out in a bag and save them, re-install as needed. And, of course, make sure you have the skills and tools to disassemble and reassemble without damaging the gun. Not hard, just takes a little care and some properly sized screwdrivers. Took me about 15 minutes, and that was taking my time.
You have a fine carry piece, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
And, welcome to the forum!
BlueOvalBandit
Well-known member
Take a look at Jerry's other 627 in 38 super it still has the lock... I'm not convinced, there are stories for everything. Jerry is supposed to come down and shoot Norco and I will ask.
Ok thanks every1! This is by far the best forum I have found. I love firearms and I really love nice guns. I have always been a proponent of "you get what you pay for". And I would think $1000 for a revolver would be a nice carry piece. Granit I have paid 2-3x that for a nice 1911. And exponentially more for an AR, rifle or bird shot gun. But $1000 is the top range for a carry gun in my book. Especially when I can buy a Glock 26 for half the price(no offence) and know it will shoot every time.
So please everyone keep the great info coming! Thanks again!!!
So please everyone keep the great info coming! Thanks again!!!
Well mine was an X frame 500 and not a J frame but it locked up at the range. Locked up solid and of course I didn't have the key with me. My guess is that recoil activated the lock. I only own two S&W's with locks out of a pretty large collection. Now I simply refuse to add anymore with locks to my collection.
I was one of the who cares if it has a lock until it happened to me. Now I could never trust my 500 or SSR.
I was one of the who cares if it has a lock until it happened to me. Now I could never trust my 500 or SSR.
Crazy88Fingers
Well-known member
It's non-essential for the firearm to function. And there are about a million other ways to disable the gun for safety's sake. Plus the more you browse online forums the more you'll see phrases like "infernal lock" or "lawyer lock", and they aren't completely unmerited.
Now that you've read that there may be a one in a million chance of it malfunctioning it will always be there in the back of your mind. Yank it out, and sleep a little easier.
Now that you've read that there may be a one in a million chance of it malfunctioning it will always be there in the back of your mind. Yank it out, and sleep a little easier.
Ashlander
Well-known member
When the lock was developed nobody was designing it for a 500. I have seen the recoil on those things break scope mounts! So don't think there is any application to a J-frame.
Moreover, if the lock was unreliable it would have been redesigned a long time ago (and who is to say it hasn't!). S&W has done scores of engineering changes on their guns over the years -- this would not be any different.
No disrespect is intended to those who disagree -- but I think there has been so much "group think" on this issue that people start going along with this anti-lock stuff just because it's become dogma.
Moreover, if the lock was unreliable it would have been redesigned a long time ago (and who is to say it hasn't!). S&W has done scores of engineering changes on their guns over the years -- this would not be any different.
No disrespect is intended to those who disagree -- but I think there has been so much "group think" on this issue that people start going along with this anti-lock stuff just because it's become dogma.
My Grandfather swore power steering was a safety issue and should be banned.
My father's third wife still won't have a car with electric windows.
The IL was added to placate the Clinton administration. (You mean a revolver has no safety?!) This was purely a political move that sent ripples of discontent throughout the S&W community.
It does not serve any useful purpose. Maybe one-in-several-million has hung up. Maybe more S&W revolvers have failed for other reasons. Maybe ...
There is a guy on this forum who sells a kit to remove the lock inexpensively and handsomely. He is a stand-up guy with a nice product.
I for one would not care to answer a Prosecutor's question about me "removing such a critical safety device"
from my gun. On the other hand, I can and do make my own self defense ammo so there's some hypocrisy to chew on.
I have shot thousands of round through my two IL equipped revolvers. No problem.
In the final analysis, this is America and you have a choice.
Take it off or leave it on.
YMMV
My father's third wife still won't have a car with electric windows.
The IL was added to placate the Clinton administration. (You mean a revolver has no safety?!) This was purely a political move that sent ripples of discontent throughout the S&W community.
It does not serve any useful purpose. Maybe one-in-several-million has hung up. Maybe more S&W revolvers have failed for other reasons. Maybe ...
There is a guy on this forum who sells a kit to remove the lock inexpensively and handsomely. He is a stand-up guy with a nice product.
I for one would not care to answer a Prosecutor's question about me "removing such a critical safety device"
from my gun. On the other hand, I can and do make my own self defense ammo so there's some hypocrisy to chew on. I have shot thousands of round through my two IL equipped revolvers. No problem.
In the final analysis, this is America and you have a choice.
Take it off or leave it on.
YMMV
Be as it is my ils 642 -2 10 years ago locked up and the cly. would not turn till the key was put back in to unlock it. I was shooting 125+P 38spec when the lock kicked back on locking the gun stone dead. I got rid of it and found a no-lock 642-1 and just recently a new 442-1 no -lock. I would buy more if they took the lock off all models. A 438 and 1917 would be first.
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Maximumbob54
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My 637-2 kind of half way locked up on me. I say half way since the flag half raise up and the nub on it went into the hammer enough to jam it up, but it didn't fully engauge. I gutted it and tossed the parts. When the frame cracked on it and it was shipped home to S&W for repair, they put the part back in to fill the hole and left out everythign else. I really want to break down and buy a new 442 that is junk parts free.
Wayne
Well-known member
My Grandfather swore power steering was a safety issue and should be banned.
My father's third wife still won't have a car with electric windows.
The IL was added to placate the Clinton administration. (You mean a revolver has no safety?!) This was purely a political move that sent ripples of discontent throughout the S&W community.
It does not serve any useful purpose. Maybe one-in-several-million has hung up. Maybe more S&W revolvers have failed for other reasons. Maybe ...
There is a guy on this forum who sells a kit to remove the lock inexpensively and handsomely. He is a stand-up guy with a nice product.
I for one would not care to answer a Prosecutor's question about me "removing such a critical safety device"
I have shot thousands of round through my two IL equipped revolvers. No problem.
In the final analysis, this is America and you have a choice.
Take it off or leave it on.
YMMV
HMMM, a safety is a device, or switch if you like, that does not allow a gun to fire accidentially if you apply to much pressure on the trigger, and is easily "opened" when ready to fire.
A lock is a device that disables the gun so it cannot be fired, and reqires an extra device (key), to make the gun operable.
I'm just say'in ! The info is out there and not just from Internet hacks, but from many respected people in the gun world. I have one with a lock, and it is a "fun" gun, so I don't care, but I would not carry one for self defense with the lock. It's like forgetting to buy your lottery numbers, and you say oh well, it's a 1 in a million chance, and your numbers win !
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chp
Well-known member
I simply disassemble the gun and grind down the little nub on the lock. I can turn the key and put the lock "on" and the J still works. Problem solved . . .
I have been using my 625 JM, 627 PC and 617 for Steel Challenge competition with the lock in and have had no problems.
For my carry guns, M&P 340 and 632 Pro, I have removed the "flag" portion of the lock. The key part of the lock is still in the gun.
I think that even if the "key" part of the locking system comes loose it will not block the hammer.
For my carry guns, M&P 340 and 632 Pro, I have removed the "flag" portion of the lock. The key part of the lock is still in the gun.
I think that even if the "key" part of the locking system comes loose it will not block the hammer.
cjtraining
US Veteran
Everyone has an opinion about the locks. FWIW here is mine. I have three M638s. They sometimes are carry guns. I replaced the lock with a plug. Why take a chance on a self defense gun. I have three other guns with the lock that are range guns. I won't change them. My everyday carry is a M649 with no lock.
This lock thread has gone full circle.
thread closed
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/110903-lock-cant-get-past-hole.html
thread closed
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/110903-lock-cant-get-past-hole.html
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