500 spitting lead with plated bullets?

Have a new 8 3/8" 500 that I shoot Berrys Plated out of, at speeds around 1550fps (A4100/Enforcer and heavy crimp). These Berrys bullets have extra thick plating, good to 2100fps or more. Using standard compensator for plated.

Have been getting hit on left cheek with something that has left a very small cut on my cheek a couple times. Also other shooters a few stalls down from me have complained that they too were being hit with something sometimes when I shoot. Whatever came out of my revolver had to go through 2 or 3 screen dividers to hit them.

Brass is perfect, nothing coming from there. Bullet holes look perfect at this 50 yard test, no plating pealing off, and are accurate, which shows me that they are staying together fine. Could this just be burnt powder?

Have sent gun back to correct this as well as couple other issues, but wanting to get others opinion on how can it be spitting lead when bullets are plated. Or is the term "spitting lead" just a generic term that describes the issue, not necessarily meaning shooting straight lead bullets?

Thanks.

I seriously doubt that Berry's are good to 2100 fps, that's full jacketed or perhaps really hard cast, gas checked slugs. Suspect that much of the problem is with the Berrys and the crimp.

Try some Hornady XTPs with the same load and see if it still spits, think it won't. Don

I don't think it's shaving lead or you'd have some lead build up around the forcing cone or compensator. I'm thinking the compensator is directing unburnt powder and ash back and to the sides -- at huge pressures. Even a piece of ash at those pressures is going to sting -- and right close up, a scratch or two is probably par for the course.

I shoot just little 22s and get stung by unburnt powder -- so a 500 with a compensator. That's my 22 times 500!

Not all of the debris comes from the comp..some of it may be coming from the forcing cone and around the cylinder. Yes, unburnt powder will also feel like lead spray. The other thing is that my comp would begin to fill up with lead and powder fouling after about a 100 rounds, and then big pieces of it would let go and be blown back into my face...The muzzle break comp is extremely hard to get totally clean.

If you have a removeable comp, you can sure try one of my replacement comps...this was what I had to do in order to keep my 4" from cutting the left side of my cheek. Sure makes the noise more tollerable too. And it totally removes any lead/ powder spray from the muzzlebreak comp. Here is a pic.


The Berry's do have a real heavy plate. I drilled some .500's to make them hollow points and I couldn't believe how much copper had to be drilled through on the nose in order to reach the lead.

DonD said:

I seriously doubt that Berry's are good to 2100 fps, that's full jacketed or perhaps really hard cast, gas checked slugs. Suspect that much of the problem is with the Berrys and the crimp.

Try some Hornady XTPs with the same load and see if it still spits, think it won't. Don

Click to expand...

There is a post somewhere on here where a rep from Berrys Plated did confirm that the 500 and 45-70 bullets "only" have had much thicker plating on them, good for over 2100fps. Personally, during testing for maximum crimp, I have crimped them so hard that the 500 cases buckled, and still no sign or any tear or damage to plating. They hold up. Even so, I am only running them at about 75% of what they are rated for. Plus, I have 600 of these, and at 20 cents a round, (cheaper than lead with GC), will make them work (although based on success from others here using that bullet, I doubt the BP are any factor). Berrys Plated make the 500 S&W economical to shoot as much as desired.

Not to be all rosy on BP, as I did have a lot of issues with them tearing in 9x18 Mak rounds, and in my 40 S&W, the BP were never anywhere close to the accuracy lead gave me.

freedom 475 said:

If you have a removeable comp, you can sure try one of my replacement comps...this was what I had to do in order to keep my 4" from cutting the left side of my cheek. Sure makes the noise more tollerable too. And it totally removes any lead/ powder spray from the muzzlebreak comp. [/img]

Click to expand...

I have thought about that, just to make the neighbors in the stalls near me happy (why should I need to make them happy?). But "I think" things are a little different with the 8 3/8" version. The compensator on the longer and heavier barrel seems to work well for me. Noise is not an issue. Recoil is nothing, a little less than same length 44 magnum.

I didn't think anything like this could spray back from compensator regularly. Thought this problem involved the cylinder to barrel/forcing cone section.

If after I get the revolver back from S&W the spitting still exists, your solution might be my only choice.

Thanks for all the replies so far.
I take it then that saying "spitting lead" is a generic term that can be used with plated and jacketed as well.

RobsTV said:

There is a post somewhere on here where a rep from Berrys Plated did confirm that the 500 and 45-70 bullets "only" have had much thicker plating on them, good for over 2100fps. Personally, during testing for maximum crimp, I have crimped them so hard that the 500 cases buckled, and still no sign or any tear or damage to plating. They hold up. Even so, I am only running them at about 75% of what they are rated for. Plus, I have 600 of these, and at 20 cents a round, (cheaper than lead with GC), will make them work (although based on success from others here using that bullet, I doubt the BP are any factor). Berrys Plated make the 500 S&W economical to shoot as much as desired.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong if the Berry's are good for that high a velocity. Don

Out of curiosity, I looked at Berry's website. It said their plated pistol slugs are not rated for magnum velocities. Called and talked to a receptionist who said 2000fps. I mentioned the website statement. She went off line and talked to someone more knowledgeable.

They said that the pistol bullets are not rated for magnum velocities with the exception of the .500 S&W slugs which they said have thicker plating and are good to 2000. Good information to know. Have lots of slugs for my .500s, don't need anymore right now. Don

I also had a problem with pieces hitting me in the cheek with Berry's plated bullets out of a 357 mag. Reduced my crimp pressure and the problem went away. My guess is the plating was cracking due to the crimp pressure and coming apart when fired.

Berry's plated bullets

I had to pull about 40 rounds of Berry's plated bullets in .500S&W loaded by a friend because I was not sure of the true load data.

About 3/4 of the bullets removed had the copper plating severed 360 degrees around from the deep crimp. I know that plating was coming apart when the rounds were fired and some of it would have certainly gone out the compensator, had I been using one.

I installed one of the non-compensators available here from our forum friend Freedomxxx?

GIrine45 said:

I had to pull about 40 rounds of Berry's plated bullets in .500S&W loaded by a friend because I was not sure of the true load data.

About 3/4 of the bullets removed had the copper plating severed 360 degrees around from the deep crimp. I know that plating was coming apart when the rounds were fired and some of it would have certainly gone out the compensator, had I been using one.

I installed one of the non-compensators available here from our forum friend Freedomxxx?

Click to expand...

I believe the original 500 S&W Berrys were thin like normal Berrys plated, and they stopped making them for a short time to correct the plating issues many were having, then they came out with the new thick plated ones.

I have crimped enough to buckle the 500 cases. Can not crimp any firmer, yet the couple dozen I checked during setup never came close to cutting through the plating with these new plated 500 bullets. I was having a tough time with bullet creep, so kept testing many different crimps, pulling to check for damage to plating as I crimped tighter and tighter until cases buckled. That still did not stop creep. I now seat with Lee die in a seperate step, then crimp with Redding Profile Crimp Die, then go back and adjust Lee seating die to crimp and finish with that crimp step. Sort of a double crimp. These finally stopped bullets from moving, did not crush cases, and left plating fully intact. I did have issues with plating tearing on other calipers of Berrys that I crimped too much, and these easily showed the issue by looking at target and seeing the petals around hole and very poor accuracy. The 500's stay together fine with the dies I am using.

I don't think there has to be visible cutting for the plating to come apart when fired. Plating is more fragile that jacketed and all it would take is for the plating to fracture during crimp and the fracture may not be visible. Trying to find a crimp pressure that would stop creep without fracturing the plating was a pain for magnum loads and not worth the cost savings in my situation.

DEG said:

I don't think there has to be visible cutting for the plating to come apart when fired. Plating is more fragile that jacketed and all it would take is for the plating to fracture during crimp and the fracture may not be visible. Trying to find a crimp pressure that would stop creep without fracturing the plating was a pain for magnum loads and not worth the cost savings in my situation.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I guess perhaps instead of just looking at pulled rounds and target holes, plus judging accuracy, I should have tried the cardboard near side of muzzle method, so that I might be able to see what was coming out. If this continues after revolver comes back, that will be my next step.

After pulling, I tried to separate at the crimp line using knives and razor blades, just to confirm they were still solid, and I could never get one to even begin to come apart at crease left from crimp.

Other bullets are always a choice. But at 20 cents a round, very accurate, rated for 2000fps yet used a lot slower than that, with no signs that I can find of plating issues (not sure what is spitting), make this something I can shoot 30 to 60 rounds each session instead of 10 or 20. It comes down to money to shoot, and these allow the 500 to be shot almost like any other lower cost caliper..

I am leaning toward the spitting debris as most likely powder related, with perhaps hot burning or unburnt powder particles flying out of too large of a cylinder to barrel gap. Not really seeing any unburnt powder though, so still a stretch. Just a guess from trying to eliminate other causes.

Also, this seems to happen more with LRM primers. I was running low on LR and have a bunch of LRM so reduced load a tad and tested. These helped push accuracy to excellent, but spitting(?) seems to have increased. Note, these are not hot loads. Recoil is not bad at all. Current load is a little more than what a 44 magnum feels like. Muzzle rise from rest less than 45 degrees. Red dot site is holding up fine. I did just pick up new stock of Winchester LR primers, so will be going back to them and re-adjusting load. The prior CCI LR were a bad choice anyway, with a few hangfires occuring.

DEG said:

I don't think there has to be visible cutting for the plating to come apart when fired. Plating is more fragile that jacketed and all it would take is for the plating to fracture during crimp and the fracture may not be visible. Trying to find a crimp pressure that would stop creep without fracturing the plating was a pain for magnum loads and not worth the cost savings in my situation.

Click to expand...

Took some photos of bullet seated with no crimp, Redding profile crimped applied, then back to Lee seat/crimping for final crimp. Photos show some strange stuff due to reflections of nickle cases on plated bullets, but if you just look at the case crimp amounts and angles, it should show the story. Again, these can not be seperated at crimp line with a knive if pulled and if crimped harder will collapse cases. But without doing this, they creep. this method, they stay as good as can be expected.

EDIT: Just called S&W to check on status, and after only having it 5 working days, they already had it shipped on it's way back to me tomorrow! Recut forcing cone and replaced cylinder. Amazing service.

my 500 is spitting and making my face bleed on the left side. i am loading 460 grn lead with gas check from matt's bullets . starline brass cci lrp and have the spitting problem with all the powders i have tried. it seems to only do it after around 15 to 20 rounds when the metal warms up. i have tried increasing the loads decreasing the loads with no avail. It does not spit at first only after 15 or 20 go down the pipe and things seem to warm up. i have been watching this very close and trying to narrow it down but am at a loss. i made sure to watch for this when the gun was cool and clean and sure as **** it started to spit and cut my face up after 20 rounds . This is a used gun but seems to be in very good condition no movement or loose parts

DonD said:

I seriously doubt that Berry's are good to 2100 fps, that's full jacketed or perhaps really hard cast, gas checked slugs. Suspect that much of the problem is with the Berrys and the crimp.

Try some Hornady XTPs with the same load and see if it still spits, think it won't. Don

Click to expand...

The Berry's in the 500 S&W Magnum are rated to 2000fps....

500 S&W/50AE plated pistol bullets

ductmate said:

my 500 is spitting and making my face bleed on the left side. i am loading 460 grn lead with gas check from matt's bullets . starline brass cci lrp and have the spitting problem with all the powders i have tried. it seems to only do it after around 15 to 20 rounds when the metal warms up. i have tried increasing the loads decreasing the loads with no avail. It does not spit at first only after 15 or 20 go down the pipe and things seem to warm up. i have been watching this very close and trying to narrow it down but am at a loss. i made sure to watch for this when the gun was cool and clean and sure as **** it started to spit and cut my face up after 20 rounds . This is a used gun but seems to be in very good condition no movement or loose parts

Click to expand...

I purchased my first 500 last month. It's a 10.5" performance center model brand new with original test fire dated April 2015. So far I have 15 rds through it with Hornady 300gr FTX ammo. Every time I've shot it I can feel debris hitting me and others standing near by have said the same. Last time I shot it I was hit in the left cheek and started bleeding enough that I had to wash up in the restroom at my local range. It was quite embarrassing. I enjoy shooting it but am hesitant to take it out again. I haven't contacted S&W yet, figured I'd try some different ammo first. Good to know I'm not the only one being hit with debris!

Be safe out there!

I loaded up some of the X-Treme 158 plated bullets in my 357 at 1200 fps and I had the same spitting and actually found a ring of plating in the forcing cone. They work fine at lower velocities.