I have a 686-3. It is a Midnight Black finish, and needs to be refinished. I was going to look into a bead blast satin, but testing shows some of the small parts are probably carbon steel and not stainless, and I don't want to go to the trouble to test and replace them. It is going to be a woods gun. It is a good caliber for my area in the Cascades. I have another 686-1 for show and range.

Have been reading the posts on hard chrome. It looks like one good choice. I would not have to worry about replacing carbon steel parts. I do worry about dings in the pack, and dings carrying in creeks, fishing. And it rains a lot here. Every time I get a gun for a field gun, there is something I like about it that makes it hard to put to rugged use. I traded for this one because it was already abused. One fear is that a nice satin chrome finish would do the same to this one. The other concern is that chrome cannot take the abuse.

So, would hard chrome be good for a field gun that is going to be used in a harsh, wet environment?

I will say that hard chrome is a good choice. It will not chip off unless very heavy deposits are applied and that will be marginal. I ran a small hard chrome plating operation for 10 years for a medium corporation in the tool & shop. I plated numerous items on everything from soft to hard steel. I am a master tool maker. We used it to plate die/mold parts. Instead of shims we plated the hard chrome to add size. For wear on mold parts it was great as it was very hard and resisted wear for fiber glassed reinforced resins. I bought a 57 before the 657's came out. I sent it to Magnaport for a tune, ports, and the satin chrome finish (hard chrome). It was steel not stainless. Came back flawless. Dropped it into a gravel driveway one time. Dinged it and it didn't chip but the dent just pushed the metal in and adhered. Never rusted or anything.

Magnaport, Ford's, etc. would be the place to go. You will not be disappointed. JMHOP

There are quite a few types of "hard chrome" finish's out there. I have a 19-4 done by Metaloy in Berryville Ark. It is a tough finish. I previously had a 1911 frame done by them 25 years ago and it still looks good and it was used a lot in competition.


The 1911 frame after 20+ years of use.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

The rockwell hardness of hardchrome is MUCH more resistant then other finn. I have three.. and have no issues with dings, chips or anyother prob..looks great... I have known about the properties of hardchroming for yrs. as we would hard chrome out work rolls in the rolling mills , to increase life.. and resist damage... seems to be the same on pistols.. not to metion the lubricity properties.. would be my first pick for a working firearm.

Not to mention the fact that some rifles had hard chrome bore-plating. I don't know if they do that anymore or not.

You guys that know....know the secret in the plating is what is underneath. Anybody can lay-down a plating, but the surface preparation has everything to do with it.

Make sure your cyl. throats are correct and maybe your forcing cone is chamfered before you plate it. My throats were .356 on my 586.

You realize of course that the 686 is stainless, right?

If I'm reading this right, you want to HC a stainless revolver. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you mean to HC certain internal parts - hammer, trigger, etc., then please forgive my misinterpretation.

HC on a stainless gun is a duplication of effort and frankly, not worth the effort.

I have several HC firearms, some revolvers, others rifles and in every case, they are carbon steel, not stainless.

HC is without doubt the very best there is for protection, time proven and the evidence is all around us.

That said, some don't like the look of it, but I do.

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide, it's your gun and you get to make the call - and truth be told, if it makes you happy it's worth it.

Preferences obviously differ, but I see no point in hardchroming a stainless gun.
Dunno what you mean by "test" on the small parts, they won't be stainless & no need to "test" to find out.

If the black finish currently on it is beat up enough to bother you, I'd suggest you have it beadblasted off, leave the surface in the resulting darker gray matte finish, and just harchrome smaller parts that may concern you, if that's even feasible. In some cases it may not be advisable.

Hardchroming the main gun won't add any marked degree of corrosion resistance.
Beadblasting will be cheaper.

You might check with your potential plater on tolerances that'd be affected by such chroming on small parts.

Which company is up to you, I've had good results from Metaloy.
Denis

APW/Cogan thinks hard chroming a stainless pistol is a smart move:

FINISHES - Metal Finishes | APWCOGAN

Interesting guy to talk to, but I retain my opinion above.

I handled a recovered stolen Smith 67 several years ago at work. It'd been left out in the weeds for an unknown period during a winter.
Outside, you couldn't tell, the frame, cylinder & barrel hadn't rusted or corroded at all. I mean- at all.
Inside was a different matter. The carbon steel parts were ruined.

I can see hardchroming the frame & slide on a stainless pistol, I suppose, to help reduce friction.
I can see hardchroming a revolver's hammer & trigger for the same reason.
I can see plating the smaller internal carbon steel parts to resist rust.
I can't see bothering with the bigger stainless revolver parts like frame, barrel & cylinder.
Denis

Among the other desirable traits for hard chrome there are these:

The coating is highly uniform in thickness. This is not the case for nickel plating which can vary by quite a bit.

The coating thickness is much thinner than nickel. An advantage as it does not affect the fit of pieces.

Hard chrome has a lot of "reach" (a plating term). Reach means it can plate interior surfaces. Most plating processes, when faced with a barrel, for instance, would only be able to plate less than an inch into the interior. Hard chrome can plate an entire barrel.

On the down side, hard chrome is very hard (good), but not very maleable. If the substrate is soft then the substrate can dent and the hardchrome will not dent (it's too hard) and it will chip off.

For most handguns, however, hardchrome is a super durable and reasonably attractive finish. I like it.

It may even make sense to hard chrome over certain stainless steel parts. Stainless steel tends to bind and gall when it rubs against other stainless steel parts. For that reason stainless steel spring wire is often tin plated for ease of forming.

So if you have two parts that rub, and both are stainless steel, then it may make sense to hard chrome those parts for lubricity and not for corrosion protection.

Agree on lubricity & parts that interact.
Just can't see spending the money for plating the big stainless parts that really don't.
Denis

As long as you don't mind the color shift. Stainless steel looks a bit yellow, and chrome looks a bit blue. By themselves it is not too apparent, but side by side the color difference is remarkable.

Never noticed "a bit yellow" on the 15 or so stainless guns I have.
My hardchromed guns just look a slightly different shade of silverish than my beadblasted stainless guns do.

I suppose if the "tint" of stainless bothers you, plating it could be something you'd want to do.

The only reason PM's 686 has that black finish is to darken the bright stainless for those who don't like bright guns, it adds nothing whatever to either lubricity or corrosion resistance.
Neither would hardchroming the big parts. Chroming COULD change the tint slightly, but that's about all it'd offer as a benefit.
Denis

My old Detonics Combat Master was nickel-plated and had a yellow-ish hue to it. It was nicely done but buffed to such a high polish it could be seen from space!

When the bluing on my old model 49 is finally trashed, which should happen in the next 10-20 years, I'm sending it off for a matte chrome finish.

Nickel does have a yellowish tint.
I got my 649 years ago, it shall not be plated. If you'd bought RIGHT in the first place...
Denis

Nickel is definitely yellowish in cast; chrome is definitely blueish in cast. This color shift is not usually noticeable unless the two finishes are held side by side.

Stainless steel is plain steel alloyed with chrome and nickel. Depending upon the alloy, it will look more or less yellow. Most stainless steels (type 304, Type 316) look slightly yellow.

As an aside, the company I used to work for has plants in NY and California. We made the same products in both plants. But in New York, where chrome is the "premium" finish, zinc plating is usually done with a blue chromate conversion process (or sometimes in a "clear" chromate).

In California, where silver is the premium finish zinc plating is done usually with a "white" chromate to mimic sterling silver. The east coast platers cannot duplicate this finish. So we were not able to supply all customers from either location.

If it were completely stainless steel, i would not chrome plate it either. The 686 Midnight Black is new to me, but it is apparently a stainless pistol with a black finish that is not very durable. The pistol looks bad. I would bead blast it and be done with it, except that some of the parts are not stainless. That is, at least some of the parts are regular blued carbon steel. It was probably easy to pick up a blued screw for example, than to blacken a stainless small screw. I could check each piece, but it just seemed easier to find a finish that would work for all the parts. I was also looking at the cerakote type finish, and if it were a semiauto, it would probably go that route.

Since nobody's mentioned Robar's NP3 finish, I will. Well worth a look.

I had a buddy back in the 70's that just for kicks and giggles had a little Llama .380 "mini 1911" hard chromed at a cylinder plant he worked at. He swore it was impervious to anything and to prove it, threw it up on the roof of one of his outbuildings on his mountain property. He threw it up there in October while we were hunting, we went back up in late May after the snow cleared the roads. He climbed up on the roof and threw the pistol down, it looked like the day he threw it up there. Without cleaning it, he loaded up the mag and fired off all rounds, no problems. I was impressed to say the least, as I have seen recovered stainless pistols with areas of corrosion beginning to show, this pistol was spotless. I had the master and wheel cylinders hard chromed by him for my '49 Dodge Powerwagon, they were perfect, no leaks and never any worry about hydroscopic reaction.

I had both of these done by Chris Peters at Metaloy! They are THE BEST!

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This gun was advertised as being hard chromed. I think it looks great. This was a 1917 .45 from 1937 that was sent to Brazil.

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Metaloy should be able to blast the frame, cylinder & barrel and plate the smaller parts.
It's not an "all or nothing" deal.
You decide what you want plated & what you don't.

Hard chrome will last much longer than Cerakote with extensive use.

I have a Smith 28 and a Colt Commander hard chromed by Metaloy, came out quite well.
Denis

Hard Chrome looks OK....

M 53 with brushed Hard Chrome Finish



Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I sure like mine as a beater - can't seem to hurt it. Bought this used and didn't know what the finish was for sure. Posted it here and the consensus was that it was Hard Chrome. Beauty is you can still like it and not have to baby it . . . .

29-3

Well, mailed my check off to APW today. Sending the pistol on Friday. I am having it bead blasted and hard chrome plated. Will post the results upon return with photo. I will say that Mr. Cogan was very helpful on the phone. I am not a fan of pimped outs guns, but this is a utilitarian finish for a backpacking pistol. It has been raining for a month here, more or less non-stop. Things rust.

I received my 686 from APW today, with a bead blast finish and hard chrome plating. The pistol was a little rough, and some flaws in the metal still show through the finish and platting. However, the finish looks good for a utility pistol. There are a few "shadows" in the plating finish that are apparently due to the difference in the texture of the bead blast finish on different surfaces. I would probably recommend a brush finish in the future, but this is what I ordered. Sorry about the quality of the pictures. It is my first time posting pictures.

And it is still raining here, a month after my last post. I can count the dry days on one hand..

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I had several guns done in ARMALLOY a hard chrome popular 30 years back. Metaloy seems to be the same finish. At least it looks the same.

Armalloy was thin and very hard. Worked fine on a pair of 1911's, a Browning Hi Power and this model 41 that had been a rust bucket previously. The 41 had gone from sub zero to a warm house, in a case. Then left for several weeks. It rusted and pitted in several spots.



Anyone know of an equivelent to Armalloy today? GeddyLee??

Armoloy is still around, I think there's an Armoloy shop in TX that still does guns, google it. Also, Mahovsky's Metalife is supposed to do great work. I have a revolver being worked on now that is going to be going to them when it's finished.

My Behlert 25-2 was Armoloyed back 30 or so years ago and still looks great.

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You might Google hard chrome plating firearms. There are quite a few places. Hard chrome plating is what it is. Magnaport did mine. But they did the action job on mine first and then plated all of the internals. Still is smooth as the day it was done. Mind you it was flash chrome plated. No appreciable build up. I think you will be very pleased with the outcome whomever you choose.

There is no patented answer to your question. The variables of use, treatment, maintenance all will weigh on what the appropriate action should be.

That being said, it never ceases to amaze me how many people will offer opinion on metallurgy with no basis to their opinion.

Comparing a hard chromed surface to simple stainless is ludicrous. Your 686 is made from a low grade stainless, most likely something in the 10/2 group or at best the 18/8 group (10/2 is 10% nickel and 2 % chromium with the balance being largely iron and a few trace elements. You should be able to ascertain what 18/8 is from this statement) Hard chroming will produce a far superior surface as far as corrosion and wear resistance is concerned. Whether your situation requires that extra degree of protection is debatable.

Hard Chrome is a very descriptive term, i.e. it's chromium and it's hard. It is not the same as decorative chrome plating. There are issues with hard chrome plating that should be understood before making your decision. Foremost is that hard chrome plating by nature will have defects when applied to a dissimilar substrate. These defects are typically realized as microfissures (cracks) The microfissures will offer an attack point when considering corrosion resistance. This is where the wisdom of hard chroming stainless steel becomes apparent. The microfissures over carbon steel would be more susceptible to crevice-crack corrosion, a stainless steel substrate would offer greater corrosion resistance.

I'm of the opinion there is no "right" answer when it comes to hard chroming stainless steel. I do believe that there is a definitive answer in each specific case if you will truly evaluate your situation, the environment it is used in, and what results you expect.

Keep in mind that there are two ways to prevent corrosion. The first is by "coating integrity", which simply means that all the surfaces are coated. Paint works in this manner.

The second is by "sacrificial anode". That is when you put on a finish (usually zinc or cadmium) that is more active on the periodic chart than iron. The more active element has to be completely sacrificed before any rust can occur. So you can have a scratch through the surface of a zinc plating job and you won't see rust for a long, long time. This is the same principle that is in effect when boaters place sacrificial "zincs" on the rear of the boat to protect the bronze propellers.

The problem with nickel plating and to a lesser extent, chrome plating, is that the plating is less active than the iron (steel), so if there is a scratch through the plating the iron in the steel acts as a sacrificial anode to the plating. The point being that once you have violated the integrity of the chrome or nickel plating the iron in the steel will rust faster than if it were not plated at all.

Nickel scratches easily so it is more at risk. Chrome is very hard and resistant to scratching. If the original adhesion was good this is a very small risk.

First of all it is stainLESS not stainPROVE steel.

StainLESS steel has several disadvantages.

1. It is softer grade of metal so it scratches easy. The silver color just makes them less noticable.

2. Galling between same grade of steel is possible.

3. It is called stainLESS for a reason. It WILL rust. I carried a stainless revolver in the trunk of a year in the midwest. During the year of cold and heat it developed several spots of rusts deep enough to leave pits. (As a footnote three of rounds that were in the revolver would not fired after that year).

I have long been considering using a stainless steel gun as a BASE metal for a ultimate rust resistant gun but don't know whether to go with hard chome or electroless nickel or higher priced fancy NP3 for a s.s. 1911 auto.

There are some grades that are rust proof. Monel comes to mind. But you are correct that the grades that are required for firearm production are not completely rust proof. But the small specks of rust that you see on 400 series stainless will rub right off with a rag.

8-18 stainless, which is a 400 series stainless, will get rust spots. This is the stuff that stainless steel flatware is usually made from. But if you run it through the dishwasher the rust spots disappear.

So while you can get some spotting, you will not rust out a stainless steel gun.

Galling is a problem with stainless. But lubrication will usually deal with this issue.

I'm gonna disagree with you there. Having worked with Stainless and "regular" bar steel, stainless is much harder than regular steel.

Try cutting, welding and forming it and you will know.

I agree that stainless steel is difficult to machine. Before the advent of investment casting (which allows a casting with far less machining required) and the use of carbide tooling, stainless guns cost vastly more than the carbon steel variants.

Stainless wears down high speed steel bits with alarming speed.

But the material itself is not as hard as steel.

Medium carbon steel (C1045, which can be hardened) in the cold rolled state has a Rockwell hardness of 90 on the B scale. It has a Rockwell hardness of 86 on the B scale when annealed (in its softest state).

400 series stainless, which I believe they use on most hand guns, has a Rockwell hardness of 56 to 58 on the B scale. Some of these variants can be hardened after machining.

In any event the higher Rockwell number means a harder material. So the carbon steel is harder in the soft condition than the stainless steel is in the soft condition. Furthermore the carbon steel materials can be heat treated to a higher Rockwell number than can the stainless steel materials.

In general carbon steel's mechanical properties are superior to stainless steel's. It is only in the corrosion resistance that stainless steel shines.

Have you ever compared sharpening a carbon steel knife with a stainless steel knife? The carbon steel will sharpen faster and will stay sharp longer. But it will rust. So you find precious few carbon steel knives anymore.

The same can be said of guns. A well-cared for carbon steel gun is probably tougher than a stainless steel gun.