I have a friend that is interested in SW revolvers, but would like one in 45 Colt that is capable of handling the hotter Ruger Only loads. Does SW make such a beast?
Thanks!

I think that is why they are called "Ruger Only" loads! :-) The only Smith that would handle them would be the X frame 460. They are too much for the N frame 625 models.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Spot on Nightowl.

If you wont something that kicks your butt you need a S&W 500. About the same as a 45-70 hot load. Will a model 25LC handle a 45 load if you keep the pressure like a 41 or 44 magnum? --->-<Has anyone tried this?>--- I have a 29 & have owned 3---25s but none in 45LC. The 45LC brass is thinner. Just asking.

The Ruger-only loads only approach 25,000 CUP. .41 and .44 Magnum loads are 35,000+ CUP.

It might work. It might not, either, in which case you'll be holding a lower frame in your hand when the show is over.

Thank you gentlemen for your help. I will pass on the info.

Keep in mind that the 41 and 44 Mag chambers leave more steel around the hole when you bore the cylinder. Also, IIRC, when Elmer Keith was doing his seminal work with hot handgun rounds, he went to the 44 chambering (at least in part) because of the problems he was having with complications dealing with high pressures in 45 chambers in his revolvers. That's worth thinking about... he may have been on to something.

Froggie

Spot on Froggie , but you left out the best part,
His springy colt stampeded in different directions...lol

The steel is the weak link in the chain, not the brass.

Ruger Red Hawk and Super Red Hawk cylinders are 1.78" diameter and their bolt stop notches are offset away from the thinnest part of the chamber wall. S&W N frame cylinders are 1.715" diameter and their bolt stop notches are centered over the thinnest portion of their chamber walls. A friend took his early 25-5 .45 Colt cylinder into work and measured the thickness at the bottom of its stop notches. They averaged 0.017”. The cylinder he measured was a warranty replacement cylinder because the 25-5’s original cylinder had oversize throats and larger chambers. Most early 25-5s never got a warranty replacement cylinder. His original cylinder likely had even thinner bolt stop notches. Additionally, 1989 and newer 25s and 625s got longer stop notches after all N frames got the endurance package that was created for .44 magnums. The flat at the bottom of newer 25-5 and 625 .45 Colt stop notches has to make them weaker than older revolvers.

The first sign of a 6 shot S&W cylinder distorting from over pressure reloads is dimples on the inside of the chambers over the stop notches. One dimpled cylinder was enough for me.

There was a pretty good article in one of the gun rags a few years back (Handloader maybe?) that did a great analysis on .45 Colt loads. They showed that the S&W could handle loads up to 25,000 cup on a regular basis (this is about what .45 ACP loads are) and up to 32,000 cup as an occasional round. This was not based on the safety of firing the round through the gun but just because you would shoot it loose a lot faster. The same article showed that the Ruger revolvers could handle up to 50,000 cup safely. Keep in mind that a .454 Casull load is 65,000 cup, so 50,000 is right in the ballpark of these! I have spoken with the Buffalo Bore guys in the past and they indicated that their 300 grain load is safe for the S&Ws, and that loading is pretty close to the Speer Ruger Only loadings (300 grain at around 1100 fps.).

Take this information as you will. Keep in mind that SAAMI has been lowering safe pressure limits for many years now. .44 mag used to be 40,000, now it's 36,000. The old 38/44 loads were right on the heels of, and the inspiration for, .357 magnum. Either way you go, don't expect to sue anyone over your handloads!!!

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Even older, even crankier....

I actually hammered a ruger super blackhawk with beyond max loads when i was young and dumb. It ate every round i put thru it and wanted more. This was life before the redhawk's. The redhawks are suppose to be even stronger than the super blackhawks.

When the reloading specs say for ruger only it means ruger only. But i think the BFG revolver maybe stronger than the ruger but i'm not sure.

I like my magnum rugers with my stout loads but my smith & wessons get the standard loads. I like both of them.

Why do people insist on hot rodding the 45 Colt? Tell your friend to buy a 460 or 500. Better yet, see if the Navy has any 16 inch guns left over from WW II he can buy. Sheesh.

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No life story has happy end.

Here's a good read about S&W 45 Colts by a guy that knows a thing or two about revolvers: Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

Switched to decaf have we?

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

Sixteen inch ammunition is Out of Stock, No Backorder every place I've checked.

Old Speer manuals list seperate loadings for Rugers and TC Contenders, years go loaded up some hot .45's for the TC Contenders, yes you can do it in those guns, but brass life is very short. As noted above if you have to do it get a .454 Casull,.460 or .500 and have at it.
The big frame Dan Wessons will take a pounding but again why? After wearing out a few guns I came to me senses...about this subject anyway Don't ask my X wife about that or anything reguarding my senses , common or other wise ...

Do what you feel comfortable with after the many comments you get. As for me, I love my 625-6 and some HOT loads. Anything can happen. The best can fail. The worst can exceed expectations. I hope many people see this thread and want to sell their 625 Mountain guns to me on the cheap because they are simply incapable of handling Ruger loads. Now let the 'tudes and comments fly towards me for my "opinion". If you must go to the MAX in .45 Colt loads, then get a Casull. 340's at 1150fps are downright spicy in my Mtn. gun. As with anything, enter at your own risk. Shoot safely and Blessings to all.........

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Go big or stay home

k22fan nailed it. There is not enough steel in the cylinder at the notch point limiting how much pressure you can push in an S&W revolver designed for 45LC. The 45LC was always a fairly low pressure round UNTIL Ruger and TC came along. Even then, there is a limit as to what the cases can take because they were designed over 100 years ago for blackpowder. As others have said, if you want more power, look elsewhere.
Model 25's are sweet but don't try to turn them into magnums.

Don't buy the hype about the weak brass. 45 Colt brass is just as strong as any modern cartridge.

I used to read all the time about how folks loaded hot loads once or maybe twice in brass, then relegated it to light loads. So I decided to test some brass for myself. Here is 45 Colt brass after 15+ heavy (300-325gr bullets over 24gr of H110). They lost their headstamp somewhere along the way but the necks haven't split and the primer pockets are still tight.






Matter of fact the brass is now loaded with some 240gr Speer JHP's over 28gr of H110.

Now, I am not saying you should do the same. Remember, this was just a test to see if the 1 to 2 loadings held any merit.

Thanks again all for the replies: fascinating information. My friend has no desire to shoot extensive amounts of hot loads through any pistol; he merely wanted a pistol to possibly take large game with up to and including elk. He also is looking for a possible companion piece to a 45 lever gun.

A .45 260gr LSWC at 900 fps will go through a whitetail lengthwise. Probably kill an elk, too, if put in the right place.

I must admit I agree with Saxon Pig on this one. I am constantly amazed at the reasoning disconnect of some folks when it comes to common sense limits on firearms.

As an instructor and in the past an FFL holder as well, I often had people come to me and ask something like, "I need a carry gun for self defense, what's the cheapest thing you have?" My reply was usually "well, how much is your life worth ?"

Or, "I want to buy a 25 automatic for my wife for self defense, and I don't want to spend a lot." For your mother-in-law, maybe, but I kinda like my wife . . .

And then the all encompassing conundrum . . . " I want a carry gun that shoots a powerful magnum performance round, is light and small enough to carry in my pocket, doesn't recoil much and, oh, all I can spend is 150 bucks . . . whaddya got like that ?"

I started shunning a couple of guys I shot with years ago after it became apparent the elevator just didn't go all the way to the top in regard to such. One in particular was so enthralled with his 'reputation' at the club for such, that factory 44 mag ammo just wasn't enough - he 'rolled his own' and bragged that after the third loading you couldn't read the head stamp any more. I didn't want to be in the vicinity when he blew himself up. I think he's still alive, but then the Lord looks out for small children, drunks, and fools, or so I'm told . . .

Nothing wrong with wanting to wring more performance out of loads or equipment - but don't try to make a howitzer out of a pocket pistol or a magnum out of a cartridge designed over a century ago as a black powder round.

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Qui plantavit curabit

In a fit of curiosity, I asked Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore about this. This is from his response to me:

The cylinder flying open under recoil has to do the crane a *world* of good.

I would say that also negates any quick follow-up shots!

A couple of years ago I inspected a Model 25-5 at the LGS that had the cylinder bulged so much that it hit the frame on opening. The story is that the previous owner also had a Ruger he shot heavy loads in. I suspected he tried them in the Smith or got his loads mixed up. Gun was later sold, but not to me!

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Very simple , I read on buffalo bores site that please do not call them or write about shooting the higher power loads in s&w revolvers & if people kept shooting them & wrecking guns they would stop making them altogether. Everyone on this forum has good info but i would trust the people that make the ammo above all of the measuring and guessing if the gun is strong enough. Pushing anything to It's limit is a risky proposition.

Not likely to grenade, but will beat it up. As noted, it's called "Ruger only" for a reason. It will also beat you up - there are times when might have to do that, but not most people most of the time. At 30, that's one thing - at 50+, it's completely different. It is also probably an answer it search of a question.

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NHI, 10-8.

They couldnt make it any more plain and simple. If you have to ask why this means you!

In a ruger in 45lc with the load for rugers only its more powerful than the 44mag. But with my experience with my hotter 44mag loads i have to ask why? I had guys on both sides of the range leaving when i shot my hotter 44mag. I had 10" of flames out both sides of the cylinder and 13"+ flames out the barrel. Seeing this wasn't so cool. Let alone trying to hang on to the beast. Those were the last of my hot loads for sure. I keep within the normal specs now.

I have a sort of 'system' for my .45 Colt loads.
If it's for my S&W M25-5, it has a 255 gr. Keith LSWC loaded in it.

If it's for my Winchester Trapper .45 Colt Carbine (that I sometimes deer hunt with), it has some sort of jacketed HP loaded in it, and much warmer.
BTW - anchors deer great!

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

And I thought a cratered primer was a sign to back down on the powder.