Is it safe to use factory load .45WinMag with moon clip in M625JM (Rechamber)?

If it safe why not anyone use it.If it not safe what is the reason because this gun can use .460Rowland and .460 Rowland and .45 WinMag have the same pressure = 40000 PSI and same case diameter.



Thank you.

I don't know the answer, but let us know how things turn out.

And WHO told you the 625 was SAFE with 460 Roland.
Chip King

With the .45 ACP, loads don't exceed 21K PSI. The .460 Rowland comes in @ 40K PSI, virtually twice the .45 ACP. The .45 Win Mag also comes in at the 40K PSI level.

Sounds like a disaster in the making.

I don't know who told him, but Clark's in LA told me so. They said it cost $100.00 to rebore the chambers and it would take a month. I had that conversation last week, when I called them hoping to have a S&W 31-2 rechambered to .32 H&R magnum.

I used to hunt deer with a 625

I emailed S&W and asked if I could load 45SUPER in it

I expected a lawyer answer, but to my surprise, they said YES


a 230gr speer Gold-Dot at 1150fps is fine medicine for big Midwestern deer

SIERRA load data book has 45ACP "revolver only" load data

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USPSA/IPSC

the 45 win mag uses a different case, double the pressure, do video!!

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I BACK OUR BLUE

The only pressure numbers I've seen for the 460 Roland are given by Hodgdon & they show 40K CUP, not PSI, as the max.

The 45 Super isn't formalized either. Hodgdon shows 20K CUP & I've seen 28K PSI elsewhere.

While the 625 can handle .45 Super and .460 Rowland, I don't see any point to attempting .45 Winchester Magnum. I believe the Super gives you all the power (and recoil) you'll ever need without the risk.

Also, be advised that only Starline Win. Mag. brass fits the moonclips, and not Winchester.

I believe Ruger is missing the boat by not chambering the Redhawk in moonclipped .45 Win. Mag. But then again those people have a very hard time thinking outside the box.

Dave Sinko

I have a 5"bbl. 625 that is reamed to accept .460 Rowland ammunition. I also had it Mag-Na-Ported to reduce muzzle flip. I use 255gr LSWCs in it and haven't had problems. Recoil is a hand-full so I don't shoot it a lot. Clark Custom has been doing this conversion for many years. They also sell a .460 Rowland 1911 top end with barrel and compensator.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Don’t have the figures in front of me but I’d bet the .45 Win Mag case and loaded round are too long for the .45ACP chamber. Don

Edited to add that Hodgdon’s reloading site says that the COAL of the .45 Win Mag is 0.27” longer than the .45ACP.

Welcome to the forum RSIA-01!

Interesting thread. I would suggest checking some books and calling some manufacturers. If I wanted to shoot .45winmag in a pistol I'd buy pistol built to do that. If that animal didn't exist I'd buy a .454, 460 or .500.

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But then, what do I know?

RSIA,

Welcome to the forum, and do not be surprised if this thread get "interesting". I recently purchased a 625 with the intent of running 45 Supers. I have about 11 years or so experience with 460 Rowlands in the 1911, and a few with Super in the 1911. The 625 is new to me.

There is no question that the 625 revolver will take more pressure than 45acp standard reloadings. The question that arises is exactly how much. I think the issue as to why not more info on these cartridges is that they are mostly handloading only propositions. You can buy 45 Super and Rowland from a couple of places, but the rounds have not been standardized by SAAMI, and as such this raises a lot of conjecture and confusion on the web.

The actual pressure data that is out there is pretty thin. As a result, you will find much of the web discussion degrades rather rapidly, as once you mention the 45 acp, or hunting or increased performance the threads tend to derail. Toss in bear defense, and invariably grizzlies always enter, and goodbye rational discussion.

As to the winmag, you will probably have to talk to some of the custom smith's who do these conversions. The question arises as what is safe, and what may beat the gun to an early demise. It is not simply a case of looking at the pressure level at the top end that the cylinder can contain and assuming the rest of the gun can handle the pressure for a reasonable amount of time. There is also the question of the actual total pressure curve as will be a result of the powder used. Slower powders tend to be easier on the gun, but slower powders can give you fits with some case lengths and bullet sizes. And slower powders prefer longer barrels. I am not familiar with the winmag, but if you need something like H110 to get top performance, it might be a lousy fit for a shorter barrel. It could be the winmag might be safe in the 625, but is not done for performance reasons?

Craig

Thankyou for all answer and warm welcome ^_^

I try to research about .45WinMag Revolver for the entire night and found this topic in ar-15 forum.

I have the revolver bug... And it is BAD! - Page 2 - AR15.COM

There is .45Colt/WinMag/ACP custom built by PC in many year ago.

IMHO one aspect of the 625 that makes it great is the big bore non-magnum ballistics / performance. Hopping it up is possible but for close to moderate range the returns are limited and for long range shooting a true magnum revolver / caliber is a better choice.

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

RSIA,

Thanks for the link. I had not seen that one, but I do recollect at least seeing something on the web before.

One area where the 460 and 45WM has been discussed is in doing the conversion of a 625 in 45 Colt to accept moon clips for the acp rim configuration. In doing this conversion, it is generally accepted that accuracy of the acp based rounds can be somewhat poor, as the acp length bullet has to travel down a length of 45 colt chamber that is something like 0.470 ish. This allows time for the bullet to become "tilted".

The conversations I remember (and gave thought to) was using 460 Rowland or Winmag brass to get the oal of the cartridge longer to shorten this "jump" distance. A little different than your question about pressure, but a reasonable and possible reason for using the brass and conversion.

As to the gun in your link, the unflutted cylinder can be an asset to pressure within the cylinder, if the bolt notches fall between the cylinders. That gun looks like a six shot gun still, so it is still probably pretty thin between the base of the notch and inside cylinder wall. Still a pretty nice looking gun.

I should have mentioned that I have rechambered 45acp 1911 barrels to 460 Rowland, but not going to do my 625. No way I would even consider winmag. Personally, I have decided to hold my pressure somewhere between 45acp and Rowland, a tad higher than 45 Super published by Hodgdon's. My reasoning is given the short barrel length (4 inches), a 25% increase in pressure to yield something like 12 or 15% more velocity seems like a poor decision. back to my thoughts about more than just pressure, but looking at the overall picture and goals ;^)

Craig

I believe that you are mis-interpreting the post.

S&W did not convert that revolver to be a 45Winmag firearm as part of the PC work the owner had commisioned.

It is a side effect of milling the 45 Colt cylinder to accept 45ACP in moonclips, the long 45 Colt chambers allow 45Winmag to slip in.

Take a long look at 45 Super. I have run many tens of thousands of this round through my 625s. No work is necessary. The power increase over 45ACP is significant. especially if you handload.

Colt,

Very big yup on that. If you spend a bit of time with the Super, it will probably become apparent to you that the Rowland offers very little enhancement over the Super. And I like the Rowland, but I try and keep an open mind ;^)

Craig

Ruger hasn't done it but Hamilton Bowen has. Of course he's added some embellishements. Scroll down to the 7th entry. + Bowen Classic Arms + Workshop

Tom,

That sure is a dandy. A subtle thing about that 50 is that the moon clips would allow for experimenting with the crimp, which is usually the bane for that cartridge in a single action revolver. Traditionally the 50 needs to headspace on the case mouth.

I have just started playing with alternate crimps in my 45 Super loads, and have found a roll type crimp is getting me back about 25 fps of "lost" velocity, as well as helping with the accuracy, bullet pull and extreme spreads.

But if your initials have any relation to the TK on my moon clips, you probably already knew this ;^)

Craig

If you read what John Linebaugh has written about the S&W 45 Colt, and +P style 45 Colt loads, he states that baised on measurements of the cylinders the 45 Colt, vs the 44 Mag cylinder, and thus the 45 ACP cylinder is @80% as strong as the S&W 44 Mag cylinder...

Also, I recommed you go to the Buffalo Bore web site and read what he says about 45 +P, 45 Super, and 460 Rowland ammo...

The 625JM in ACP has a shortened cylinder.

The 625PC in ACP has a very shortened cylinder.

45 WinMags are nearly as long as 45Colt/44Mag.

They may not fit in the JM cylinder; they won't fit in the PC.

Also the Colt chamber is bigger diameter than the ACP and will surely stretch your brass running ACP in a Colt chamber.

SAAMI cylinder throats call for .452in so if your throats are correct, that shouldn't be a reason to not go for the Rowland.

I shoot Supers in my 625 and they are equivalent to real 10mm's

The heavy revolver soaks it up just fine.

230gr gold dota at 1300fps ... who could complain about that?

Batts

The 625 provides a fully supported chamber. All modern ACP brass is solid head with ample strength equivalent to "magnum" cases. .45 Super generally comes in below 30K CUP and is no problem in a M-625.

KB,

I am certainly seeing this with 45 AR brass, reloading to Super levels. The brass is not "marketed" as plus P, but not seeing any excessive case head expansion with my pressures which are somewhere between published Super and 460 Rowland.

Craig