The fake label thread in the prior to 1980 forum got me wondering - how many of the newer labels, even up to bar code era, are forgeries?

Or is there just no money to be made in faking labels for newer guns?

I've never seen a faked computer printed label. At least not a bad one that was obvious. Unlike the handwritten labels where fakes are fairly common, and mostly being not to hard to detect.

What would it take to make a 'replica' computer label? A color scanner and/or a good camera. A color printer. Vinyl stickers of the right thickness and type in the appropriate size and shape. Software, like Photshop, to manipulate the letters. A spare box, or plastic case to stick the replica label to. And that box could show no evidence of a former label - not an easy feat, since S&W uses a very strong adhesive on their labels.

One thing to consider is there is actually a large number of variations in the computer printed labels. Vastly more than the old handwritten label. S&W made changes to the computer label frequently. I would guess, at least 20 unique styles and variations since 1983, just with revolvers.

Add to this, there where subtle changes to the cardboard boxes and plastic cases (printing, stickers, even the foam changed). Not as many changes as the labels, but at least 8 distinct styles since 1983. And that's not counting sizes.

A computer label could be faked, but it would take a lot of effort and knowledge to do it in an undetectable manner, since one would have to know, to within a few months, which style of label and type of box was in use during the time the particular gun was made.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~

Here is one that I found very suspicious.
Wrong type of box for the model.
Wrong Product Code for the model.
Product Code and bar code do not match.

There was a bunch of erroneous text in the auction description too.

KO

Attached Images

657label.jpg (61.0 KB, 437 views)

That is suspicious. Fonts are all wrong. Can't recall seeing one like it, and I've seen thousands. The product code is for a 6-inch gun. Box is wrong era for that s/n. It's a 1986 s/n and a 2000 era box (the same box that's still used today). The correct box for 1986 would of been the one piece cardboard box. That's a whole lot of strangeness for one label. I wonder if the gun was pre-lock and old frame. Those would be HUGE red flags.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~

I saw this thread start yesterday and was going to comment that all it would take was a person motivated by some financial gain to start faking computer-generated labels...and here the first example seems to have appeared. Sad if true.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I'm not going to search for it, but there was a thread some time back that might explain the OP's label.
The thread gave a name and phone number of a S&W employee that made (furnished) upc code labels upon request - just by giving serial number over the phone.
Other than that, it would be extremely easy to print them on your computer at home.

If it is from the same auction I just looked at, the guy is either ignorant, or is trying to pull one over on buyers.

On a side note...I'm amazed at what some people consider "mint."

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No good deed goes unpunished.

The labels 1980's through 2000s would be next to impossible to duplicate. Yes I heard of someone getting a another label from smith wesson last year and did see a picture of it. It still did not match the original from the mid 90's. If Smith Wesson could not duplicate it exactly with all their high end equipment, no one can. End of story folks.

I politely disagree Grumpys. It's just beginning with historical pieces. Some of it is about intent. Does someone simply want a box and label that matches their 'orphaned' gun ...or are they trying to deceive someone into paying more using forgery.

With a laptop (or smartphone) and inexpensive electronic microscope/software; paper type, age, coating and impregnation layers can all be called in seconds. As gun collectors, most don't go to that level, but it's not difficult to check.

Going forward, sticky paper and ink won't be a factor. We'll be talking pre and post RFID/transponder aware guns. The electronic ID business is busting at the seams.

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Best Regards,
Mark

I doubt they were really trying to exactly match the old label, just using the equipment they have now, which no doubt is not the same printers and base stock they used 20 years ago.

You can fake anything. The quality of the fake will depend on both the skill and experience of the forger, the equipment he has available, and the complexity of the document. A S&W label is pretty simple.

Anybody with a few years experience in offset/flexo printing and working in a minimally equipped shop could fake them by the hundreds to a quality level that only a professional could spot.

The hardest part might be the obsolete printer typeface. It would probably be quickest just to build it. The rest of it, barcodes and base label, are pretty easy.

An 8 year old could easily enough fake a passable lookalike label with today's software.

The hard part would be getting the lable style and font correct for the era (S&W changed the details every 8 or 9 months, or so), and faking the very specific label material and special "glue from hell" S&W used.

You can't just buy those at Staples.

If they could fake all that perfectly, it would probably be worth the premium they were trying to charge.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~

A while back I saw a 39-2 listed as LNIB. While the pistol itself was fine and it was a correct box the label was off of fleabay and instead of upside down on the box (correct) it was right side up. There may have been some right side up but not that I've seen. To some who may not be familiar it looked fine at a glance but was obvious to me as relabeled. Although the fresh label should be a flag to anyone looking at the older hand written labels.

Lil off topic but saw a guy at Wanenmachers last month that asked me if I wanted any S&W labels. I should've at least looked at them but I'm pretty sure they were the hand written ones that you can buy numerous places.

I have played around with a scanner and just MS Paint just out of boredom - bar code generators are easy to find on-line. I suppose if I really wanted to improve the one below - I could. Fonts are correct but I would have to muck around with the spacing and size of the S&W emblem...

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SW_Fake.JPG (49.4 KB, 123 views)

That's a pretty good "replica".

Except some labels had one bar code, others two, then for a time they had three, and of course for years all the labels with made with no bar code. What was the appropriate time frame for each style?

There were even times when they used FOUR bar codes, but they ran out of room on the normal label, so they had to add an extra label just for the bar code.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~

Soooo ... I found the picture below online - I have a 4-inch 686 with SN beginning with AWE - and the serial in the picture is close enough for Gov't work ... I found a correct 4-inch BP box here thru the forum - but the label was removed (and left a lot of residue - very well-glued as mentioned). Sometime, if I ever pass out of indentured servitude status to my wife, I am going to go back into Powerpoint and correct my test label. The test label dimensions aren't correct - but this photo is clear enough, and clean enough, that I can scan it, use digital white-out on it, and put my revolver's info on it. Then, I'll get it printed on a laser on kinda-sorta correct label paper. Note that the mothership made little effort have have the barrel length print under "Barrel"/etc on the label. I've never seen one that matched correctly - I think a fully-aligned label would be a good indicator of a fake.

The 686 was a police turn-in from Wyoming when I was stationed there many, many years ago - so it has some sentimental value. I'm only making the replacement label out of anal-ity and wanting to have a matching box for everything I own ... the revolver will never be sold during my lifetime.

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SW_KEEP.jpg (59.0 KB, 92 views)

Buy the gun..not the label...or the box.

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Remain Viable

To each, his own - I think that's how the saying goes. I don't have many S&W's - but I try to have the correct box for each. Still have the box of my original Model 28 from 1970, and a couple of others ... Pride of ownership, maybe - but it's just how I roll. I diligently try to not critique or criticize other folks preferences ...

I hear ya but it's kinda like having the original owners manual to your old car. Just cool to have.