I have tons of S&W revolvers and none look like the pic. Is this a canted barrel? Its been shot about 50 rounds and didnt notice it when brand new although I cant confirm it wasnt this way from NIB.

In that photo it sure does look like the shroud/sleeve is. Remember, that is a two piece barrel. When using your sights, does the front sight seem "canted" to the right? Did you have to move the rear sight left when sighting it in?

Gun shot dead center(3-5") bullseye from 10-20ft. Doesnt seem canted but any other sws with two piece barrel do not have this slight offset. I have only shot this one about 50 times, bought two one was for my dad but he didnt want it so i sold off the second one after shooting it about 100 rounds. Didnt notice if that barrel was the same but that one also shot great out I of box no rear sight adjustments, planned to do that woth more longer distance shooting and before i did after first full clean i saw the imperfection.

If it shoots well "as is", don't mess with success!

I know those "imperfections" really **** people off. Myself included. But, I have to agree with jaymoore. Since it works I wouldn't fix it either. But, it's not my revolver.

BTW, I don't think the shroud can move rotationally much, if at all, if it's located similar to the TRR-8 shroud:





I wouldn't use the cosmetic serrations as functional alignment indicators. Unless someone can state that is indeed what S&W uses...

It's not canted the grooves on the top strap are not centered, mine is just like that one. I contacted S&W and they told me it was OK. It would seem to me that you could mill those grooves with more precision than that.

Morning magnumfreak;

My latest 69 (late 14 build) looks similar in the rib match up.
I really can't see any blatant barrel cant (by looking at front sight)
but it must be off a little as I have the rear sight moved
right-of-center to compensate for something being machined
crooked or matched up incorrectly.

My last few Smiths have had very poor quality control so this
seems to be Smith's norm lately (at least in the ones I have
handled or looked at).

Have you looked at the crown on yours? My 69 had big pieces
of flash around the muzzle crown (very poor machining control
& it seems no quality check before shoving it out the door).

Also look to see if your hammer is rubbing the L/H side of the
hammer opening in the frame (mine was rubbing pretty bad).

I got a new M60 last year that was clocked a little more than your M69. I sent it back to the factory and they "adjusted" it and it came back aligned perfectly. Of course, that was a one piece, non-pinned barrel so perhaps the fix was simpler.

Threads like this convince me even more that buying "vintage" S&W is the way to go. Maybe they had their fair share of issues when fresh from the factory back then as well but at least most will have been fixed by now.

I can't imagine how annoyed I'd be after spending something like 1k+ on a new gun only to have obvious QC issues.

I'm in a small city in Canada so a, most of what I buy is online (so not seen or handled first) and b, returning a gun to Smith (or a distributor who would then return to Smith) would be a major PITA

Mine is centered by eyeball inspection, if it's off it's not more than 1/2 a groove.
Would put myself in the function first category. If a gun shoots, I don't nitpick the cosmetics to the Nth degree. If I wanted perfect, I'd fork over the $ for a Korth (not going to happen).

Morning sailor723;

Yes, I agree, "buying "vintage" S&W" is the way to go
but that doesn't work if a person wants a model 69 (5)
shot .44 mag.

My new 69 is pretty poor in regards to quality, fit, & finish
but I really wanted a smaller frame 5 shot .44 mag so was
delegated to accepting what they are pushing on the public
now or not owning one.

I looked a 4 different model 69's & picked the best one & it
is about a 2 on a 1-10 scale.

As of late I am pretty well convinced that I am going to have
to send any new S&W revolver back to Smith for some sort of
warranty repair so I just buy the best I can find locally then
shoot it for a while, then send it back to smith for warranty
work (some have to go back more than once though).

In addition to the M60 I sent back to have the barrel adjusted, I have another gun with a slightly clocked barrel. About half of one of those grooves on the M69.

I decided it wasn't a problem as the clocking was so slight.

That gun is a 40 year old pinned barrel M18.

I think with new guns if there is a problem that bothers you, send it back. Bean counters are in control of most companies and costs will be cut right down to the minimum level customers will accept.

In other words, if we, as customers don't complain about product quality issues, we will get low quality products.

I have a fairly new M66 Combat. My top strap is aligned similar to the OP's original picture (mildly underclocked), but much more slight, it's very close to being aligned with the grooves. Not perfect, but very close. The front sight also appears to be well-centered and vertical when I look at it from the front. I also noticed some flashing on the front of the barrel. Again, not bad, but not perfect.

OTOH, today I'm highly anticipating getting my brand-new model 640-3 back from Smith for an overclocked barrel. Really anxious to get it back to see if Smith got it lined up correctly. If they did, even though I wasn't terribly happy sending in a new gun because of this, S&W will be back in my good graces. :-)

Pinned barrel guns were usually aligned properly and are still my favorites. That being said, all guns that are not pinned get a closer review by me before purchase. Alignment of the barrel like that on the OP's post is a dealbreaker for me. I simply will not spend my money on quality control like that nor will I participate in the process of returning the firearm to reinstate it to condition it should've been in at manufacture.

The only way to convince manufactures to correct these problems is to stop purchasing their product. Theme of the day appears to be quantity not quality, something I won't be a part of.

My 69 looks OK to me

Is this a potentially serious problem? I bought a new Performance Center 627 only yesterday and have fired about 40 rounds so far. In cleaning the revolver last night I noticed some rub marks on the L/H side of the hammer. Not very attractive, but functionally I wonder if it will really make any difference?

That said, it seems that S&W should get their act together. No excuse for this maladjustment on a Performance Center revolver!

__________________
Ralph T
NRA Benefactor Member

Afternoon Ralph

No, not a big problem, just annoying & shows the S&W workmanship of the assembly= (piss poor).

Eventually it will leave lasting marks in the frame & a shinny mark on the hammer side.

The only time I have had issues with the hammer rub is when lowering the trigger pull weights.

When the double action pull gets down in the sweet range then any friction in the hammer fall can lead to light primer strikes.

Good new is; it usually just takes a .002" or .003" hammer shim to move it right enough to not be an issue.

It just shouldn't be there on an $800.00+ gun don't ya think?

Afternoon nipperdog

Still looks like something not centered correctly if the rear sight blade needs to be that far right.

I totally agree that it shouldn't be there . . . but doubt that most folks (probably including me) will take the time & trouble to return the revolver for adjustment. So . . . S&W gets away with another PP job of final tuning . . . and on a Performance Center revolver . . . totally not acceptable.

What do we do to get their attention?

__________________
Ralph T
NRA Benefactor Member

Afternoon ralphtt

Start our own gun company & produce better quality products at a lower price.

S&W is selling everything they can make in a hurry at a good profit so what is their incentive to change.

We can't just stop buying the S&W as they are one of the few that make what we currently want in a revolver.

It will come back to bite them when things get slow & their quality past catches up but they are rolling in the money now so they could care less about their future.

Great replies. I sent pics and info to S&W and got a ticket started so i will post results. Sure hope it goes better than last time, in aug last year i needed to send a 41 mag pd back and it took a month to get a return lable yet the gun was returned within 2 weeks repaired. Ti cylinder had crack they replaced it.

My new model 66 is off a little also but front sight is not canted. Kind of upsets me but I don't want to mess with the pia of sending it back. The first 66 I orderd was shipped to my dealer with the front sight messed up and dealer sent back before I even had a chance to look at it. The new replacement took another month before I picked it up. My next new Smith won't be a new Smith I'm going after a nice 13-2. I can give Smith and Wesson a thumbs up for my new 617 it was put together right.

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Havent decided if i will demand fix.

Because we don't have access to special tooks what can we do?

Hopper, have you received the gun yet?

Yes! Sorry, I updated a different thread where I had initially reported the problem with my 640-3 to the gang.

I wish I had taken before/after pictures, but it appears that S&W has my barrel very close to spot-on. It may be off by micrometers (if that), but it's really, really close.

I got my 640 back on last Friday, which was exactly 3 weeks from the date I sent it in. While turn-around time wasn't as quick as Ruger, I'm happy to report that I am pleased with the results.

I'll be slinging some lead with it this weekend, at which time I'm also going to install an XS Big Dot on the front. Looking forward to making sure it's a straight shooter!

I'm leaning that way too! 3 of my last 5 revolvers (new out of box) had to go back for one thing or another. However, just picked up a 54 year old Colt Python and a 14 year old S&W M15 and they are dead nuts on.

My last new S&W was a 686 Plus Pro. Disaster out of the box. Talked to a friend at the mothership who said it was cheaper to fix em rather than invest in QC. Can you believe that? Frustrated.

[QUOTE=Talked to a friend at the mothership who said it was cheaper to fix em rather than invest in QC. Can you believe that? Frustrated.[/QUOTE]

Please, please tell me you're kidding. I suspect you're not, unfortunately.

Very sad. I was curious because I have one at S&W right now. I will explain when it is returned.

i don't know about being considered a canted barrel, but if that were mine I'd be INCREDIBLY annoyed by it. One more thing to look for on any new S&W I might consider buying. I'm seriously thinking they fired the whole QC department and hired a bunch of cross-eyed folks in bad need of glasses.

__________________
1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

I have seen a lot of this with almost every model 69 I have seen come in to the shop. Some really bad and some like yours. Sorry to say but it's common. IMO. I'm very OCD about stuff like this even though it's minor.

My 686 has a clocked barrel. I talked to customer service yesterday and they promptly sent a fedex ticket and told me to send her in. If they fix the barrel issue I'll probably just send it over to the performance center for a little more love.

looks to me that the serrations on the receiver are off center.

looks to me like the serrations on the recover are off center

The more I looked at my 66 the more it bothered me so I put the barrel of my new 66 into my padded vise jaws tighten the barrel a little and turned the frame clockwise and bingo the barrel sleeve turned ,didn't take much torque, and the barrel serrations lined up perfectly with top strap serrations on the frame. I took the advice my uncle gave me years ago "never force anything when working on firearms". I could not believe how easy the outter barrel sleeve turned��I'm happy that I was able to fix it myself and not have to send back to Smith & Wesson and wait weeks to get my 66 back. I hope this my help others fix what S&W should have done correctly the first time.

I mainly shoot all of my handguns at 25yds. Anything less is a waste of time and ammo. If it's shooting at the POA I may shoot it at 100yds next depending what caliber and gun it is. All my ccw guns get shot at 100yds. I like to know how accurate the gun is and if it has any limitations. I don't worry how the barrel looks if she shoots at the POA don't touch my gun. Looks mean nothing.
At the end of some of my 25yd shoots before I leave I go out to 100yds to see if I can make a pinpoint shot at a small rock or clump of grass. Example my cz85db (amberdexterious cz75) in 9mm luger using 3' of Kentucky windage I can ping anything on the 100yds berm. My 6" colt python was the same way.

I am not worried about buying a brand new S&W revolver because there warranty does cover the gun so well if it needs repair I like having that product support. S&W stands behind there products. I don't think any other gun manufacturer does that. For a American manufacturing company to stand behind there new products like that says something about the s&w company.

I have seen a number of older revolvers with this flaw and others. Some of the older pinned ones were quite off. As long as the front sight looks straight and the gun hits correctly, I wouldnt worry about it.

WELL SAID, 2K7---I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT ! ! !

__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I just picked up a brand new model 69. Same problem here (that's how I found this thread). Front sight canted to left. Ball detent for cylinder barely catches. Just called S&W customer service. They said to send it in, BUT, they are closing for two weeks. I bought this revolver to take on a pack trip to Wyoming in three weeks.

Take it with you and use it, then send it back to the mothership.

One thing this alignment issue won't do is prevent bullets from coming out the business end.

I agree, sight it in and take it back packing then sent it in. By the way the ball detent is designed to be just engaged. This causes the spring and ball to maintain a more constant inward force on the yoke that would not occur if the ball was centered in the V. My model 69 barrel the same way. The barrel rib grooves are also a bit off, but, the front sight is vertical.

Try putting barrel in a vice with padded jaws ,with a little clockwise turn of frame serrations lined up. I posted this earlier,one other benefit is it smoothed out opening and closing of cylinder. Just go easy and take your time and don't force it .

Picture of ball detent

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Picture of barrel to frame fit.

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Of course he's not kidding! When a company is being managed ONLY to maximize bottom line profits for the next quarterly statement - as opposed to being managed to best benefit the company's LONG-TERM health - then that is what you get. I see it every day.

CEOs are getting awarded big bonuses for turning in good quarterly profit statements - to drive the company stock prices UP - so that is how they manage the company. Nobody is paying them to make sure the company reputation stays high - which is what will keep them in business for the long haul.

So how do they maximize immediate profits if having a company reputation that will sustain the business for the next 20 years is no longer a consideration? Pump as much product out the door for the lowest production cost possible. What is the most expensive component in producing quality examples of this kind of product? LABOR! Paying skilled people to hand fit parts and CHECK the fit and finish of the parts costs WAY more than the materials or the computer-controlled machining. Especially if you loosen up the tolerances on the machining to reduce or eliminate rejects by widening the range of what is "acceptable".

So as long as you don't care about maintaining the company's 100-year reputation as one of the finest manufacturers in the world (a.k.a. managing the company for long-term success), then cranking out MORE of a lesser-quality, less expensively produced product is the quickest way to short term profits. Especially at first - while you still have that great reputation - you can continue to charge a corresponding premium for your product (even though you've lowered those quality standards that GOT you that reputation in the first place).

Of course, eventually it catches up to you. Your reputation is damaged to the point people are no longer willing to pay the premium price for your product (sound familiar?). Then sales - and profits - start to drop off - sometimes to the point of the company going bankrupt (can you say COLT?). Or, you have to cut prices dramatically and live on slim profit margins for a time until you rebuild your reputation.

Which way will S&W go? Hopefully they recognize the damaging effect that their pursuit of next quarter's bottom line is doing to their reputation in time to turn it around - before they follow Colt into the toilet. Time will tell...

Sorry ment EFR not Buckeye,

I have two M69s. Just looked at both guns.

"Detent" is like above pics, and as indicated above, it is designed that way (obviously with w/mfg tolerances).

Also looked at barrel alignment. One gun looks perfectly aligned, the other is a little worse looking. Both guns shoot to point of aim horizontally with no windage adjustment.



Round count for one gun is 1,600+, the other, almost 4,500. No problems with either so far.

I say shoot the gun to verify POI and then take it on your trip. If, after your trip, you are still unhappy, then by all means, ship it off to S&W.

I really like the M69.

Good Luck,

Paul

TNX for your statement concerning the Ball Detent engagement on the M69. I was concerned about mine, but the slight engagement appears to be normal. My Barrel Shroud alignment was perfect out of the Box.

Gentlemen: Thanks for the advice. I will shoot it, sight it in, and take it with me to Wyoming. I am just disappointed with the lack of quality control.

BuckeyeS&W: I considered rotating the barrel (shroud) myself (I have done that with a 8 3/8" 29 before), but it appears there is a notch in frame that locks into a recess in the shroud. I'm not sure what S&W will do.

I live about 30 miles from Smith and Wesson and have several friends that work there, most in engineering and management positions, as well as the training academy. What BC38 says is not far off. I hear from S&W employees about cost cutting and general institutional apathy a lot.

When Smith and Wesson bought Thompson Center I was very disappointed. I told a good friend of mine that is an engineer for S&W this, and he asked why. I told him that Thompson Center made an excellent product, had excellent service and warranty repair (if you ever needed it) and that S&W could only screw it up. I further told him (and sincerely believe) that S&W quality was all over the map. To me, being a S&W doesn't mean much: it could be the best of the breed, or a mess, depending on when it was manufactured.