Hi, all; first post here and I'm hoping you can help with some questions I have on my new-to-me revolver. I've been doing research here and anywhere else I can on the internet, but information is slow in coming so I finally joined to seek some knowledge here.

TLDR Version: Looking for options for a front sight on a Model 22-4, Model of 1950.

A few years ago I decided to "standardize" the calibers of firearms I own, so for pistols, I focused on 45 ACP. I had a 1991A1 my dad gave me as a gift after my first year in the Army, and keeping with that caliber, I branched into revolvers. This was about the time the S&W "Classics" line came out offering the 1917 and the 22-4. Their cost kept me at bay for a long time, so I went looking for some used revolvers.

First was a Brazilian 1917 with a 5.5" barrel. It was reblued before I got it, but looks like it was professionally done and it shoots great. Then, wanting a shorter barrel, I found another 1917, a U.S. issue revolver. It's previous owner had cut barrel to 4" and had a replacement ramp sight installed; however, the revolver was in rougher shape. I purchased an oversize hand from Midway and a gunsmith replaced it to correct slightly slow timing on a few cylinders (the original hand's tension pin was bent and eventually broke). He also swapped a a NOS serrated trigger for the original, smooth one. (The gunsmith replaced the pin on the old hand, and I kept the original hand/trigger as backups.)

Looking for the parts for these old revolvers is no easy task, so I decided I'd bite the bullet and look for a modern 45 ACP wheelgun. I like the old wood and blue steel revolvers, so the modern synthetics weren't going to be an option. I waited, bid on (and lost) a few auctions, but I finally got a Model 22-4, Model of 1950 this fall. It's serial number is somewhat lower, less than CMA1000, so I question if it's affected by the too high front blade. Shooting it with standard 230 gr FMJs, they all placed low and right of POA at about 20m. Being at least second-hand, I have no idea if the original owner had it dealt with at any point in the past.

I'm not at all a fan of the half-moon sight (never was), so I've started looking for a replacement ramp. A serrated black ramp is fine, but a serrated black ramp with red insert is preferred. Evidently, everything is back-ordered at Midway and Brownell's. S&W offers a package of 4, but only one is the style I want, and at $60+ for the lot, it makes it too pricey to keep just one.

I'm assuming my revolver's sight has the crescent-shaped bottom and not the "dovetailed" interchangeable sight, and I'm guessing its .250 in height. I don't have calipers, so I can't be sure. I've found and I'm considering a ramp sight from Dawson Precision, in .230 height to correct the POA/POI problem. There's also Numrich, and they do list sights for N-frames, but I was too late in calling them yesterday afternoon to check what they have. They don't really list the heights of their sights.

Since I thought getting something made in the past 10 years would alleviate some of the headache finding replacement parts, I'm slightly irritated, but undaunted. I'll find that ramp sight.

If you made it through all this, THANKS! I appreciate any help the community may offer up.

F_H

I can answer a couple of your questions. I just replaced the front sight on my early Thunder Ranch 22-4 (it seems the very early ones had a front sight too tall, at least mine shot very low).

Also, my eyes could not pick up the front sight very well so I went with a gold bead. I ordered it from S&W and they said the front sight should be .227, so I am guessing the .230 would work.

To answer your other question, the sight has the crescent base (S&W sent a sight with a dovetail base, so there was an additional cost for me to have it installed.) I suspect I could have sent it back to S&W to have the sight height corrected, since it was wrong in the first place, but just did not want to wait.

I hope this helps,

sackdaddy

Contact SDM. They make replacement front sights that can be easily modified to what you want. Their patridge sight with black or gold bead gives a great sight picture and with the right holster won't hang up any more than the ramped sight.

Thanks guys!

Both these replies help greatly.

Finding the "proper" height for this front sight has been a nightmare. The .227 measurement just seems out of left field too. I'm not doubting you at all, it just matches nothing that's out there on the aftermarket.

Then again, it's not like these are a new, from scratch model. I mean how many 45 ACP revolvers with 4" barrels has S&W made? So why not get them sized correctly on the initial go-round, right?

I hadn't gone directly to S&W yet, I only registered there as an owner a week or so ago, but that was the next step if no luck here.

I also appreciate the SDM name-drop. I've considered them too, I'm just not a fan of the gold bead. Maybe if I did more competition or target shooting. However, I may go that route at some point one day.

I was trying to post before/after pics, but I'm not sure how this forum does it.

Anyway, thanks again!

Just got off the phone with Numrich; I was checking the height of parts #321920 and #321940, sights the website shows as crescent-bottomed. I spoke with a nice lady in customer service, and told her what I had and what I was looking for.

She needed to check the heights and base style/design with a technician. He reported the sights they have are the interchangeable, dovetail style. The technician doesn't think they have any pin-style front ramps in the warehouse.

Nuts.

Progress Update:
I called my gunsmith, told him I was looking for a replacement front ramp, and possibly one shorter than the current sight. I told him the frustrations I'd had finding ramps, but he said he'd look into it and check a few channels/vendors he knew. I went to see him yesterday afternoon and first thing we did was measure the current sight with calipers; it measures .225. Evidently, I'm good to go with the correct sight. However, he said he could get a pinned, ramped, black (no insert) .219 sight from S&W. The person at S&W said the sight was from a 686, yet would work on the 22-4.

I mentioned I am getting into reloading, and he said, "Then wait on changing things". We got to discussing the ammo I had initially used when shooting and he asked if I'd only tried the one grain/manufacturer. I said I had (I'd shot .230 Federal Eagles) and it turned into a good conversation on how the same grain bullet, assembled with components from different manufacturers, using different powders could affect the accuracy/round impact; perhaps more so with hand-loads. Nevertheless, he's open to making/replacing a ramp once I do my part and shoot the thing some more.

It looks like I'll be getting some good indoor range time before I do anything. I'll probably apply some paint to the half-moon to get it to stand out more, give me a little more focus. Then shoot the various ammo I currently have and going from there.

How does this all sound to y'all? I'd never really thought about the different makes of ammo shooting that differently. I mean; I know it, it makes sense, but I guess I was worried I had a lemon and wanted to start tweaking things which may not need tweaked. Anyone have particularly good luck with a certain brand of ammo?

Groo here
If your gun shoots low, your in good shape.
Find the load you like and file the sight till it matches.
Then measure and get the one you like .
Ps although the old timers [ ahem] used the gold bead for targets.
[ Sized to match the target and form an 8]
Now we would use them for fast shooting [ like a fiber optic rod]
I like mine, it's fast.

How drastic a difference is there going from .230 to .200 or even .185? Or is this a "depends on the pistol/revolver/user" kind of thing?

I'm just been conditioned to shooting .230s because that's what I've always had/purchased, just because.

I may even have an old box of Winchester Silvertip Hollowpoints in .185 somewhere. I've just kept them on hand for defense, but never really shot them.

I'd definitely settle on a favorite load before changing the sight. I like to experiment as much as the next guy, but in the end, it's the same 200gr SWC over Bullseye that I feed to my 1911 and my model 25. As a side note, this challenge is one reason I lean toward adjustable sights, although I love fixed sights if they're spot on.

F,

You got good advice from your smith. The weight of the bullet will affect poi (point of impact). As will the power level that each bullet is loaded to. As will your grip on the gun that may change with time as you develop technique and your style of grip (holding and possibly changing the actual grip material and shape). And when I say poi, this can be high/low and left/right.

It's frustrating having a fixed sight gun not hit exactly where you aim the darn thing, but time and settling on a load is critical, before chasing good money to change sights.

Craig

Thanks guys. Appreciate it all.

I'm getting used to revolver shooting. I know haven't done enough of it. I've got a good selection of grips/stocks since every revolver I've purchased was at least second-hand. They all came with grips I wasn't keen on, but knowing I could change them it didn't really bother me.

Until today, I'd only purchased two sets; the first are the stock, medallion service grips from S&W, the other set are reproductions of dished, non-medallion service grips. They work well-enough on my old 1917, but may go a different route with this revolver.

I have a set of magnas made out of what must be stag, they say Ajax on the inside and they came on my first 1917, so they've been in the safe since I put on the stock grips. Last night I took them out and put them on the 22-4 to see how they felt in my hand. I liked them, so I figured lets see what's out there in magnas.

I had another set of magnas, they and several other grip sets came with a second 1917, but they were utter garbage. It was like holding the fat side of a 2x4. They had scared me off of using magnas, but the stag ones I tried were decent. After doing some grips research here, today I ordered a set of Altamont mangas in super walnut. The thinner profile of the Altamont's appealed to me.

We'll see how they do.

Find a comfortable grip that you will keep on the gun and shoot. Then work up a hand load of the weight and recoil you are comfortable with that hits at the POA you want. Yes, bullet weight and the amount and type of powder have a large influence on where the bullet lands on target. If you don't reload experiment with commercially available loads to see if you can find one that meets your requirements. If not, then, and only then would I mess with the sights. Yeah it takes a fair bit of shooting to find your magic combo but that's the fun part.

Groo here
Hate me if you like but,,
get a set of Pachmyre grips [ used at gun show cheep]
This will stop any slip and help with the kick. [ the thin ones]
Shoot the gun with mill spec 45 [ 230gr at 830fps]
When you grip the gun, tighter till it shakes, looser till it don't.
Shoot single action , from a rest if possible, at a round target
Post under dot and see where it hits.
I like the bullet to hit the top of the front sight at 50 yds [ at least]
At 7yds the group will be about the same.
Lighter boolets hit lower, heaver hit higher.
For some reason , speed , does not effect the vertical as much as weight.
For an all around , I might try a 200gr boolet at 900fps.
185's will hit lower, 230's a might higher.

I try and never hate on on someone's thoughts/opinions; everyone has what works for them.

For me, I know I needed different (wider) grips if I'm going to do extended shooting sessions to figure this thing out. Until I get other grips (the walnut magnas were out of stock and will take a couple weeks to show up), I'll be using the stag magnas. I may even get crazy and get a good set of gloves. Honestly, I'm not about suffering recoil from a long-term shooting session just because I MUST have wood grips. I'm even considering a Tyler grip.

I can always go back and forth between grips, including some Pachmayr, and see how it affects the shooting. It's a puzzle, but I'm cool with this kind of puzzle.

I've not been in too big a hurry to shoot because the recent ammo supply/cost situation has me timid to go through what I have on hand. Granted, ammo has become a very volatile market anymore, but 45 ACP is becoming a bit more stable. I do have a several different makes and at least two different grains of ammo in my house. I'll just start there and see what happens.

I thank you all for your continued input.

Here's the 22-4 I purchased this fall. Top is how I received it. The bottom is wearing the aftermarket reproduction grips.

M22 Revolver.jpg

The Tyler T grip adapter makes a big difference in how the gun shoots. (less pain)

Attached Images

DSC_0043.jpg (94.6 KB, 663 views)

On the half moon front sight; I painted it with gold automotive touch up paint.

Painting a portion of the front sight is going to be something I do before I go and shoot it again.

I've been practicing grip, trigger squeeze, and sight picture as much as I can indoors and unloaded just to get more familiar with it.

I don't consider myself old in the least, but man that half-moon is hard to keep sharp and in focus.

I applaud your efforts to standardize your ammo, but think you are missing out on a lot of fun. I love my .45's, but also love my .357/.38's.

I could not choose one over the other. Stocking two types of ammo is not that hard. Ed

I bought an early TR 22, in 2008? With the load I had already decided I wanted to use, it shot, at 25yds, a foot low and six inches right.
S&W soon became aware that the factory front sight was too tall, and offered a replacement, but after doing the math I determined that my gun would still be six inches low.
I removed about 25% of the sight to get it zeroed for elevation, and shaved one side to get it on for windage (dramatically improving the sight picture in the process).
I would still like to get some sort of post sight, as all of my shooting is outdoors, and the height and angle of the sun really affects the appearance of the "half nickel".

Eveled, I've thought about getting a Victory Model, just for kicks, but that's all the further I've gotten with it; a thought. I'm just not ready for more guns. Wait, I am, but my wallet is not.

Rick, I may get into the same territory. Groo gave some good advice: find/decide on ammo, adjust the sight on the gun until it's all good, then go get a ramp made that is the same height.

Since last posting, I've gotten a set of checkered Altamont Super Walnut grips to help with the recoil and worked on my front sight focus and trigger squeeze. I had the day off yesterday, so I checked out a recently-opened range and popped a few caps.
I had ammunition from 3 different manufacturers; Winchester white-box, Federal American Eagles, and Magtech blue box, all these were 230 grain. The bullseye targets were (I'm guessing based on how many cinderblocks down the wall I sent the target carrier) about 20-25 feet, and the silhouettes were in the 15-foot range. All of these, except for one of the "dirty bird" targets (top left bullseye), were fired with double action only. The silhouette targets were the last I shot, each had 12 shots fired at them.
When I do my job correctly, the sights work well. I seem to be either tightening my grip as I fire, using too much trigger finger, or dropping my head just as I fire. Or it's some combination of all three. I felt as the Winchesters and Magtechs were slightly better for me, so I went through what I had left of the Federals just to have some reloading brass for later.
I have a lot of practice to go, I know. I'm still not keen on this plain half-moon sight, it's the one thing I haven't been able to modify/replace yet. However, I have new confidence in this revolver and in my experience confidence in the equipment counts; not as much as practice, but now I in no way feel like I have a lemon of a revolver.

Attached Images

Targets.jpg (75.0 KB, 52 views)

It's been a year, so I guess it's time to pick this thread back up again. Today I did a live chat with a representative at S&W and found out some good information.

After giving her the revolver's serial number she told me the correct front sight height for this model is .227. I was looking for a ramp, in any height like .219 or .227, but they are out of ramps in that range. I was told the .219 ramp is discontinued as well. She mentioned a the possibility of a .230 ramp, but when she double-checked discovered it was for the quick-change ramp system and wouldn't work with my revolver.

Ultimately, she found two .228 patridge sights, one with gold bead, the other without. She said they were only a few bucks so she'd send me one if Id like to try it out, free of charge. I said, "Who can argue with free?". I asked for the black one, and she included a few extra pins in case I want to go back to the half-moon.

While she was getting a tracking number for the order, I asked if she could tell me when the revolver was made, and she had it immediately: 17 March 2009. I laughed and said, "St. Patrick's Day?" and she confirmed. I said, well after I finish each trip to the range with it, I should probably have a Guinness. Her reply, "Cheers to that!".

I just wanted to pass along a great experience with a great company. Again, Thanks S&W!

I hope your patridge sights work out, and it's good to hear that you had a good experience with S&W customer service.

If you end up going back to the half-moon sights, here's an example of how you can paint them yourself. I painted the half moon front sight on my 22-4 nickel model, and I'm pleased with the results.

__________________
NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

Thanks, Lou! This looks great; especially when viewed from the operator's point of view!

I considered just painting the half-moon, but decided to give S&W a call and check what they might know/have.

I'm still wanting a ramp. I'll probably end up buying one slightly too high and filing it down, because I can't leave well enough alone.

Practice with different ammo. Find out works just right or close to it. I normally put paint on the front sight. Old eyes need help. 3 of my guns have F.O. front sights. Helps me. Put them on this, but it is simple, on a JM. Bob

Attached Images

	kitchen again 004.jpg (150.4 KB, 18 views)
	kitchen again 006.jpg (151.5 KB, 19 views)

I've tried different brands, but it was all 230 grain; similar results. With more focus and concentration I got closer to the center of my targets.

I think my bigger obstacle is my getting used to shooting revolvers. I can shoot my 1991A1 is much more instinctive, but I like the challenge with this project.

These grips look similar to some I've seen on eBay, made/shipped from Thailand. I like them. They're actually close to the look I asked my woodworking buddy to rework the grips my revolver had when I purchased it.

Reviving this old thread with some info. My TR 22-4 hits perfectly to the sights. Just measured the stock half moon, it is exactly .200"