shotguntom
Member
I've been driving manual transmissios since the late 1960's. Road tested on them then, and to this day dont own an automatic trans car.
Sat in countless traffic jams over the pat 45+ years. Never an issue.
Are revolvers going the route of manual transmissions?
- Thread starter jmr986
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I've been driving manual transmissios since the late 1960's. Road tested on them then, and to this day dont own an automatic trans car.
Sat in countless traffic jams over the pat 45+ years. Never an issue.
It is my assertion that a revolver, specifically a light, enclosed hammer snubnose revolver is a more practical and actually a more effective concealed carry self-defense tool for civilian defense than a semi-automatic.
Reasons include...
-It is easier to carry, faster to access and get into action from a greater variety of carry methods. This is important since so many civilian defense encounters are reactive, where you often must utilize comprehensive, integrated ECQ counter-ambush skill-sets.
-A snub revolver offers the greatest weapon retention capability.
-There is no slide to be pushed out of battery or it's rearward movement to inadvertently get blocked during a close-quarter conflict or during compressed/retention shooting.
-No concerns of limp-wristing(less than ideal or one handed grips and movement being common in defense scenarios).
-a revolver is simpler to use.
-A revolver is overall more reliable.
Based on stats, greater capacity is not needed except in rare circumstances, reloads are astronomically uncommon in civilian defense and marksmanship is not much of a factor since you will most likely be quickly firing off shots from contact out to a few yards at most. Semi-autos experience a great deal of malfunctions in ECQ scenarios(we see this in actual incidents and in ECQ FoF/Force on Force).
So, why would I give up the advantages of the snub revolver that are applicable in the vast majority of likely scenarios to gain the qualities a semi-auto offers that most probable won't be needed?
Arik
Member
Great! I still have no interest in it. Didn't care for it then, don't care for it now. I like cars cause it's faster than walking and cheaper than a horse
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TeaDub
Member
Collision insurance is good... to a point. It is "possible" that I will cut off a tractor trailer hauling a dozen Mercedes Benz high end cars, causing it to tip over. Do I need to pay the premium for that? Or should I settle for something a little more realistic?
Back to guns. I carry both autos and revolvers. There are a very few scenarios where a wheelgun has an advantage. Mostly, it comes down to having a gun, preferably in a "service" caliber, that is accurate and reliable in the owner's hand.
I cut my shooting teeth on revolvers 30+ years ago. I actually carry one of your two choices (G19 or G43) as a primary now that I'm retired, more often than not. In the hot summer or at my part time job (as a BUG), a J-frame is still in the game. I've owned, and shot them for several decades. A Smith revolver is a known factor.
They are here to stay IMO.
There's always a Chicken Little...
Let's put it in perspective.
First, the odds of a concealed carry permit holder ever needing a handgun for self defense is very, very small unless you live somewhere like the hood in Detroit.
So it's a rare event.
Second, while there's no clear data on this (for obvious reasons) a good percentage of the time a concealed carry firearm is used to deter and assault it isn't even fired. Either the CCW permit holder's better level of SA gets them out of trouble before it starts or the the would be assailant keys on the fact that the CCW permit holder has a gun and is about to use it an no imminent threat actually develops.
So, in the event that rare event occurs, there's a good chance you won't have to fire at all.
Third, in those rare upon rare cases where a concealed carry permit does have to fire to defend against an imminent threat, 5 shots or less will get the job done at least 95% of the time.
Let's talk about "at least".
In the 5% of cases where 5 shots or more are fired, it's often unclear whether more shots actually needed to be fired. Remember we're including LEO shoots here as well and the data on that is interesting:
1. officers tend to shoot more now with semi autos than they did with revolvers. Now you can't lay to all on the change in weapons, as there have also been changes in tactics - i.e shoot until the assailant goes down, but the data is still interesting in department thats maintained the same standards pre and post:
- NYPD noted an increase from an average of 4.4 rounds per officer per gun fight to an average of 6.9 rounds;
-Metro Dade county PD noted an increase from an average of 2.5 shots per officer per "incident" with revolvers to 3.2 shots per officer per incident with semi-autos (incidents includes ADs etc, not just gun fights).
2. At the same time the hit probability has decreased
- from around 20% to around 12-13% for NYPD;
- from 35% to 25% for Metro-Dade.
3. More officers involved in a shoot means more shots fired per officer:
- LA county noted an average of 3.59 shots per officer per gunfight with a single officer present. This increased to 4.98 shots per officer with 2 officers present and to 6.48 shots per officer with more than 2 officers present.
- At the same time the hit percentage decreased from 51% with a single officer to 23% with 2 officers to just 9% with 3 officers.
----
The point here is that the data suggesting 95% of all shoots involve 5 shots or less includes these multi-officer shoots where the hit percentages are truly abysmal.
For a single armed citizen involved shoot the number of rounds fired is even lower and the odds against ever needing more than the 5 or 6 rounds you have in a revolver is extremely small - far less than 5%.
Now...people may well shoot them because they've got them, but if you ever need more than 5 or 6 rounds you've basically managed to get yourself into some seriously screwed up situation that you probably could have avoided with a little common sense.
That said, yes, some folks are stupid and some of these folks will probably think it's a good idea to be able to shoot them selves out of a stupid situation. But let's call that what it is - stupid.
Everyone else is going to needlessly be carrying extra rounds that they'll never use. The problem is that the more your EDC weighs the less likely to are to wear it all day long from the time you get up to the time you go to bed.
What if someone kicks the door in right now? Are you wearing your handgun? I am, and that's largely because I no longer go out looking for trouble and recognize that a Hi Power and 46 rounds of ammo is overkill, and instead carry K-frame .357.
If you're wearing your handgun right now, the odds of you being able to get to it across the room are slim and none if the door kicker has a gun and intends to use it.
Personally, I carry a revolver and I practice a tactical reload every time I load it, at home or at the range, so in the event I ever do find my self in a shoot, and I find myself needing more than 6 rounds, I'll be well practiced for the reload.
Snapping Twig
Member
Amp
Member
I like wheelguns.
JK-linux
Member
Revolvers will continue to fade... right up until they ban manufacture of new magazine fed semi auto pistols, or roll out NY SAFE-type laws nationally.
twodog max
Member
I got rid of my last semi auto about a year back. I have always been a revolver guy and always will. I would not rule out a 1911 at some point just for fun but for serious shooting of all kinds it is a revolver for me.
dwever
Member
1. First read Posts #36 and #66, then come back. Okay, but that's because a J frame except in the most expert hands rarely provides proficiency with quick accurate follow up shots. A 37 oz. N frame 8 shot or L frame 7 shot of +P will cut it. A civilian self defense scenario requiring 35 rounds (9mm chambered full size Glock with spare mag) is as statistically probable as getting hit by a meteor, and you don't prepare for that either. I have 46 rounds on duty (Glock 34) because a running gun fight while spectacularly unlikely might happen. Off duty that won't happen, and I am qualified with my agency with a 586 L-Comp 7 shot revolver.
2. Or because we are white? Please. We have the lowest homicide rate of any of the three most populous ethnicities in the U.S. by a wide margin there Barney.
For preparation for what will happen, get nite sights.
Pic 1. Perf Ctr 8 Shot 627 (ammo = Speer .357 Magnum Short Barrel), Perf Ctr 7 Shot 586 (Speer .38 +P SB), Perf Ctr 7 Shot 686+ (Speer .38 +P SB) Pic 2. The same in leather. Pic 3. Glock 22, 34, 35, and Wilson Combat 1911 9mm. Pic 4. 586 L-Comp 7 Shot w/nite sights.
"In the hands of a knowledgeable and trained individual, the revolver is more than an equal for any other defensive handgun." Clint Black, Thunder Ranch
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It's here. They are called Glocks.
What you say is true, but I'm sort of the opposite. I mostly shoot my revolver on the range because chasing brass is a pain in the ***. I have found that for hunting deer and pigs, the 10mm will get the job done and usually only needing 1 shot to put them down.
Sounds logical on the surface. I really don't get the terrorist fears as the odds are so incredibly low and even so, movement away/getting out of the area is almost always the best default response with highest probability of keeping you and your family safe rather than engagement/intervention.
Concerns over racially motivated assaults are legitimate IMO. I've actually personally witnessed them occur and have been the target of them a time or two let alone what's on the newsfeed. Consider how most happen. These attacks happen suddenly with multiple assailants swarming the victims. Can you draw and retain control of that Glock 19? Will it function reliability in that environment? Have you done any training to test it?
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JeWbW0IFSPM[/ame]
Longhorn1986
Member
Wow! That's amazing! I would have thought for certain that 100% of all the new 9MMs would be 9MM!
Stopsign32v
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I was looking at Ford trucks recently and couldn't find a single manual transmission in the F series, no matter what load rating. 
Stopsign32v
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Fact, when it comes to accuracy a normal person will have more trouble with a 12lb double action pull over a short striker fired 5-7lb pull.
Fact, a normal person will find a revolver recoil much worse than a slide assisted semi auto.
These are facts, not assumptions.
Stopsign32v
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You can slice it to your advantage if you care, I'm simply trying to stay on topic. But you are right...a steel N frame 22cal will not have as bad recoil.
I'm talking apples to apples. A current J frame vs fill in the blank semi auto.
DA in general is something you have to learn to be good at. Striker fire SA is MUCH MUCH easier. It is like learning to drive on a manual vs learning with an automatic.
Slide assist? What are you talking about, the wings on a VP9? Most females think they cannot pull the slide back because of just that, they are pulling it back. I cannot tell you how many I have showed (including a 70 year old woman in a store) that once you hold the slide with you weak hand and PUSH the pistol forward with your strong hand it becomes much easier.
Oh and I'm not embarrassed at all, it takes quite a bit for me to get there. Here's to hoping we can keep it not personal. smh
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gman51
Member
Up until a couple years ago if a person qualified for their CCL with a revolver then they could not legally carry a semi auto. That's gone now.
I was really into semi autos when I got my CCL but now most of my guns are revolvers. My cc is an LCR 357. Perhaps in the winter I might also carry my S&W 627-5.
Gun forums that are about a brand that makes revolvers often have more threads about revolvers than semi autos. I often see threads on forums that are basically semi auto types asking are revolvers a thing of the past. They need go out of their backyards and see how alive revolvers are today.
I was really into semi autos when I got my CCL but now most of my guns are revolvers. My cc is an LCR 357. Perhaps in the winter I might also carry my S&W 627-5.
Gun forums that are about a brand that makes revolvers often have more threads about revolvers than semi autos. I often see threads on forums that are basically semi auto types asking are revolvers a thing of the past. They need go out of their backyards and see how alive revolvers are today.
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