642 for woods defense?

a_finelli · Jan 7, 2017

I have a 642 and am in need of a woods gun. Mainly for 2 legged animals but coyotes, rabid animals and black bear are a possibility. If I load with +p ammo do you think that's enough? Black bear are normally more scared of you and if they come after you hurting them should make them turn around...what's your opinion? I'd rather not buy a 3" 357 if I don't have to...how hot can I load a 642 with commercial ammo? Buffalo bore?

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diyj98 · Jan 7, 2017

I wouldn't go bear hunting with a 38 special, but I wouldn't be worried about anything in my neck of the woods with a good +p 38 special. I often carry a 38 special in pocket in the woods. The odds of a black bear attacking you are very slim as you know. I'd think a couple slugs to the head and/or chest would discourage them pretty quickly.

MJB · Jan 7, 2017

It's better than a stick but for what you describe I would rather have a .44 mag or a 10mm. I would feel under gunned against a bear with a .38 special.

There, I've given you a reason to buy another gun.

BAM-BAM · Jan 7, 2017

642 = urban back up

more than woods defense

woods defense = .357 in a 3-4 inch K-frame IMHO

Rpg · Jan 7, 2017

A 642 wouldn't be a first choice for me.

"Hurting" a black bear isn't much of a plan.

Here in Colorado, I carry a Colt 1911 with hand loaded 200 gr hard cast swc H&G # 68 at around 1,000 fps.

I've shot a fair number of large animals with that and been very happy with the results.

Speed and accuracy with a a handgun is pretty important when dealing with large carnivores as well as with two legged bad guys.

For me, a 1911 is very quick.

It's also plenty for black bear.

silversnake · Jan 7, 2017

If your primary threat is human beings I would not feel undergunned with a 642. But if I had to defend myself against a bear I would want something bigger than that, even a 9mm with more rounds would be preferable.

one eye joe · Jan 7, 2017

a_finelli said:
I have a 642 and am in need of a woods gun. Mainly for 2 legged animals but coyotes, rabid animals and black bear are a possibility. If I load with +p ammo do you think that's enough? Black bear are normally more scared of you and if they come after you hurting them should make them turn around...what's your opinion? I'd rather not buy a 3" 357 if I don't have to...how hot can I load a 642 with commercial ammo? Buffalo bore?

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THE 642 SHOULD HANDLE ANY .38 SPL +P FACTORY AMMO. THE QUESTION IS, HOW ADEQUATE IS THAT ROUND AGAINST A LARGE, AND ANGRY BLACK BEAR, THAT PERCEIVES YOU AS THREATENING HER CUBS (INADVERTENTLY ON YOUR PART, OF COURSE). HURTING HER WILL JUST SOLIDIFY IN HER MIND THAT YOU ARE A SERIOUS THREAT, THAT MUST BE ELIMINATED. HOW MUCH CAN BE GAINED BY SHOOTING A .357 MAGNUM ROUND OUT OF A 3" BARREL ? ? ?

I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A LARGE HEAVY SOLID BULLET THAT CAN SMASH BONE (IN A CALIBER THAT BEGINS WITH A .4) OUT OF A 4" BARREL. MY CHOICE WOULD BE A 4" S&W MOUNTAIN GUN, THAT CAN COMFORTABLY BE CARRIED ALL DAY IN THE FIELD, IN A GOOD SHOULDER RIG--EVEN CONCEALED. EITHER A M629 IN .44 MAG, OR A M625 IN .45 COLT WILL DO THE TRICK. I HAVE ONE OF EACH. BELOW IS AN EXAMPLE......

IMHO, IT IS MUCH BETTER TO BE CARRYING MORE GUN THAN YOU NEED, THAN BE NEEDING MORE GUN THAN YOU ARE CARYING......

two-bit cowboy · Jan 7, 2017

I don't perceive a 2-legged threat here, but I wouldn't want to encounter a black bear with a .38 (not even +P). I haul around a 640 Pro with Barnes 140gr lead free magnums. We also have to consider big kitties and those big canines that were reintroduced into The Park some years back. No griz has been within "reported" within 3 miles of here in the last few years, but....

That's why I picked up a 500 4" and a Simply Rugged Pancake for when I'm out among 'em.

Edmo · Jan 8, 2017

The 642 is a very popular revolver for several reasons...

As you know it is really light, small, and easy to carry. It also is of an adequate enough caliber to change the mind of a two legged attacker. In an "up close and personal" scenario the heavy trigger, minimalist sights, and short sight radius are quite irrelevant.

Now for an in-the-woods encounter... That two legged threat could be up close, however it potentially might be at some distance from multiple threats. Four legged encounters would preferably be at a distance much greater than arms length. If it comes down to me using a gun, I want to keep that bear, coyote, and rabid critter as far from me as possible. This now makes the 642's really heavy trigger and sight limitations a much more important issue. Also, the increased shooting distances will result in a loss of impact velocity making the somewhat minimalist 38 Special round that much less effective on a dangerous animal.

With that in mind, the 642 would not be my first choice for an in-the-wood carry gun. With it's small size and weight it definitely would be a joy to carry while out hiking. However, it would be a challenge if I needed to make effective hits on a rabid animal scurrying around me at any significant distance. I am not Jerry Miculek and will never pretend to be!

What would I carry? You will hear everyone chime in with their favorites and why. Some are happy with a 22LR and others will settle with nothing less than an 88 Magnum. Realistically, if not in "big bear" country your standard EDC handgun will likely be more than adequate. You will already have a carry system for it and are hopefully at some level of proficiency.

What if your EDC is a 642, is it still adequate? It definitely would not be my first choice. If all you have is a 642 then carry it. Just have a good understanding of it's capabilities, limitations, and your ability to shoot it.

Edmo

Johnny Dangerously - It's an 88 Magnum - HD - YouTube

shawn mccarver · Jan 8, 2017

Don't forget that miscreants who make illegal drugs run in packs, often in the woods, so a bear may not be your only worry. A "pack" of wild animals or miscreants may be a real possibility.

This job calls for a 10mm, such as the high capacity of a Glock 20. If you use a 38 Special, the Buffalo Bore "Outdoorsman" load is a remake of the old 38/44 load, and will do nicely for any job for which a heavy hit with deep penetration is required. It is also safe in the Airweight 642.

So, while I still vote for a Glock 20, or a 44 Magnum revolver, if you are comfortable with a 38 Special, the aforementioned Buffalo Bore 38/44 load will be your best bet.

Fchewy · Jan 8, 2017

I have fired some Buffalo Bore +P 158 HP's in my 642....ONE TIME, I also Have their Outdoorsman Load in 38 and Underwood 158 Keith load and i have fired them in my GP100, those may fire in a 642 but i know i can't hit the barn after the first one, pretty much a low-mid 357.

a_finelli · Jan 8, 2017

All great information fellas, thank you.

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wolverine · Jan 8, 2017

a_finelli said:
I have a 642 and am in need of a woods gun. Mainly for 2 legged animals but coyotes, rabid animals and black bear are a possibility. If I load with +p ammo do you think that's enough? Black bear are normally more scared of you and if they come after you hurting them should make them turn around...what's your opinion? I'd rather not buy a 3" 357 if I don't have to...how hot can I load a 642 with commercial ammo? Buffalo bore?

Morning a_finelli

A well placed shot or two from a 642 (with good +p round)
will usually kill any of the things that you have mentioned.

The unfortunate thing is how long would it take to kill any
of the mentioned?

I does no good to shoot a black bear, or 2 legged threat, etc
but have them remain alive long enough to kill you before
dying (a very possible outcome with a .38 round with any
bullet design)

To feel totally secure you need a gun & round that will not
only kill your threat but will also STOP that threat before it
can harm you before dying.

ColbyBruce · Jan 8, 2017

A Glock 29 10mm or Sig P239 .40 S&W are my favorite guns to carry hiking in the north Georgia mountains. Around the house I usually wear a 3" S&W 65-3 or 65-5.

This was my first dedicated carry gun for use in the mountains, purchased for my F-I-L to carry around the mountain house. He thought it was too heavy and would lay it on the deck rail. He passed away a few months later and I brought this home. A S&W 58 is a great woods gun if you do not mind the weight.

Whether wild animal or wild human, carry enough gun to stop the threat before it reaches you.

crazyphil · Jan 8, 2017

Whether bears or humans it is shot placement that counts. I would
much rather be able to place very accurate .38 Spl. shots than miss
with the big boomers. .38 Spl. is adequate for big black bear. I've
been there and done that.

camsdaddy · Jan 8, 2017

Remove bears from the equation. I have no experience. If I had a 642. If I didn't have the means to buy anything else. If the 642 meant I would always have a gun. I would load it with either 158 lswc or 148 full wadcutters. Both of these round have less recoil than many of the mentioned loads. Both can be fired accurately even from a snub. Both of these can be found relatively inexpensive so you could practice regularly. Both penetrate and will make holes for blood to leak from. Is a 642 the best woods gun? No is a 642 better than nothing? Yes

ColbyBruce · Jan 8, 2017

a_finelli, you mentioned Buffalo Bore ammo. This is fine ammo, pricey too. One can't pay too much to stay alive though. I buy Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo whenever I run across it.

Muss Muggins · Jan 8, 2017

You don't say where you live. How often do people in your neck of the woods have to take a shot at a bear? If you're just risk managing the worst case scenario (there are bear in the bootheel, but the last one around here got hit with a car, and some people have said it may have been killed a couple counties away and drug onto the highway at night. It's not something we worry about), I'd stick with the 642 and buy some Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense. If people take a shot at a bear more often than, say, once or twice a year, I'd step it up . . .

Bozz10mm · Jan 8, 2017

a_finelli said:
I have a 642 and am in need of a woods gun.
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Yes. A 10mm or .357 Magnum (minimum 4" barrel) would be a much better choice.

diyj98 · Jan 8, 2017

crazyphil said:
Whether bears or humans it is shot placement that counts. I would
much rather be able to place very accurate .38 Spl. shots than miss
with the big boomers. .38 Spl. is adequate for big black bear. I've
been there and done that.

In most of the United States, the odds of being attacked by a black bear are extremely small. It's kind of the same argument some make about not carrying a 38 special for self defense, "what if you're attacked by a large group", "what if the attacker has body armor", etc.

I've never killed a black bear with a 38 special, but I've killed a number of them with a bow and arrow and saw a number of folks killing them with 22 magnums. Of course those bears were in trees and not charging, but still a 22 magnum to the head dropped them instantly dead with one shot.

If I was going into an area where I really thought I might be attacked, I wouldn't want a pistol of any caliber. I'd carry a large magnum rifle

I've killed eight or ten bears off my own place, but have never worried about being attacked by one.

642 for woods defense?

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